photosynthesis Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I'll start this post off by saying that I don't know a lot about science & technology. But I have a question about IVF and stem cell research. So we know that the Church teaches that In-Vitro Fertilization is wrong. This process involves using donated sperm and eggs to create many embryos in a petri dish (or something like that). These embryos are implanted into a woman's uterus, which is wrong. Anyway, now there are lots of tiny human beings frozen inside petri dishes in fertility clinics. We can't use them for stem cell research. At the same time, the Church teaches that pro-creation should be the result of the sexual union. What, then, are we supposed to do with all these embryos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Put them up for adoption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Yeah I'm pretty sure dust's answer is in line with the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 I had a friend back home who adopted an embryo. The natural parents had successful had the child they wanted the first time around, and left a lot of embryos. They put them up for adoption. My friend and her husband were unable to have children, and had pursued every church approved option. IVF is a no-no, except if you are adopting an embryo that was going to be destroyed otherwise. They conferred with their priest first to make sure it was okay. They tried it 3 times before one implanted. They felt really bad that the first two miscarried, but at least they had the chance of life rather than being sacrificed to be a medical experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted October 12, 2007 Author Share Posted October 12, 2007 So it's totally licit to have a child through IVF, as long as you're not creating life but adopting a life that's already been created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofJPII Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 [quote name='photosynthesis' post='1401323' date='Oct 12 2007, 01:23 PM']So it's totally licit to have a child through IVF, as long as you're not creating life but adopting a life that's already been created?[/quote] They were discussing this on EWTN awhile back and I believe they said this issue was currently under debate by moral theologians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 There hasn't been anything definitive out of Rome about this specific situation, so they took it up with their priest, and he talked to someone, and gave them an okay on it. It wasn't from them artificially creating life. They were just adopting a child that was already alive, and needed a home so to speak. Some kids need more nurturing than others, and this one needed the nurturing of an available womb. It ended up being a lot less expensive as well. I guess most of the cost of IVF is the medication to force the over population of eggs, and the harvest of the eggs. They couldn't pay for the embryo, but they had to pay the doctor to implant each time, but they found a pro-life doctor who donated his time in order to get these children adopted. I was quite surprised at the number of embryos that had been left over. Apparently the couple had also selected for sex, and all the embryos were girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 great question. I would think that adopting them into wombs that would be willing to carry them would be legit. Wouldn't that be like adopting a "born" child, only providing a home from the really,. really early place in life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 i think the fact that people don't adopt them, even christian and catholics, shows that they are not so sure htemselves of the huamnity of the embryos. if they were kids being allowed to die or killed, more eople would surely would adopt them. sure, theres aspects of christians just don't do what they should etc and made easier as you don't see it. but i think there's also aspects of what i just said. the idea that you have ot beleive they are fully human makes people tell themsevles that they are, but their actions show the core of what they really feel, they either don't believe it or are not sure maybe more likely. just pointing it out for anyone who's honest with themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-I---Love Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 This is a very complicated topic and the Church has not made any pronouncement yet. There is a commission set up by Rome a good many years ago but these things take time and the verdict is still out. As for moral theologians there are a good number of decent Catholic theologians on both sides of the issue. Even if the Church pronounces that adoption and transferral of an embryo into a wife's womb in order to SAVE that life is an intrinsically good act, the intention and circumstances still must be very exact. For instance they must be a married couple who does not practice any condemended acts such as IVF and are going to raise the child as their own. There are even theologians who will be more liberal with intentions and circumstances, but most that judge the act to be good state the above in good prudence. There was at the beginning of discussion concerning this a key stmt in Donum Vitae (I, 5) that I believe wrongly was used to argue against this issue simply because it was not clear what the Church was referencing. Smith (cited below) first brought this up it seems. Some issues to be considered here include: Does pregnancy belong only to marriage? Is gestational motherhood intrinsically linked to biological motherhood? Aside issues: Cooperating w/ immoral businesses in order to rescue embryos. Buying such embryos may perpetuate their existence as more may be "harvested" if money hungry ppl perceive a demand and profit. May we by analogy morally buy the freedom of slaves? Some sources against: Tonti-Filippini, Nicholas “The Embryo Rescue Debate: Impregnating Women, Ectogenesis, and Restoration from Supsended Animation,” The National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly 3, no.1 (Spring, 2003), [url="http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/ton/ton_01embryorescue1.html"]http://www.lifeissues.net/writers/ton/ton_...ryorescue1.html[/url] (accessed September 21, 2007). Smith, William B. “Rescue the Frozen Embryo?” Homiletic and Pastoral Review (October, 1995): 72-74. Some sources for: Grisez, Germain and others, eds, The Way of the Lord Jesus: Volume Three Difficult Moral Questions (Illinois: Franciscan Press, 1997) , 242. Geoffrey Surtees "Adoption of a frozen embryo" Homiletic and Pastoral Review (Aug-Sept, 1996): 7-17. May, William E. Catholic Bioethics and the Gift of Human Life (Indiana: Our Sunday Visitor, 2000), 106. Donum Vitae and Humanae Vitae are also necessary to read in attempting to make sense of this difficult issue. I wrote a short paper on this subject a few weeks ago. If anyone is interested in discussing the issue in more detail you may pm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 good points. i still think my ideas are present some too though. cause most people have probably never even thought of much of what you said. and much of what you said i'm sure is also rationalizations, which are actually probably sufficient rationalizations to not do anytig legitimately, so they have to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abercius24 Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) I have a letter I wrote to a US Senator on CatholicQandA.com that addresses the issue. You may find it interesting. [url="http://www.catholicqanda.com/MoralDialogues.html#StemCell"]http://www.catholicqanda.com/MoralDialogues.html#StemCell[/url] Edited October 13, 2007 by abercius24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1401470' date='Oct 12 2007, 07:16 PM']i think the fact that people don't adopt them, even christian and catholics, shows that they are not so sure htemselves of the huamnity of the embryos. if they were kids being allowed to die or killed, more eople would surely would adopt them.[/quote] Well, I, for one, would adopt them. I didn't even know it was an option. I think that is more of the case than that there is any doubt on their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1401470' date='Oct 12 2007, 07:16 PM']i think the fact that people don't adopt them, even christian and catholics, shows that they are not so sure htemselves of the huamnity of the embryos. if they were kids being allowed to die or killed, more eople would surely would adopt them.[/quote] Well, I, for one, would adopt them. I didn't even know it was an option. I think that is more of the case than that there is any doubt on their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofJPII Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 [quote name='prose' post='1402587' date='Oct 14 2007, 09:05 PM']Well, I, for one, would adopt them. I didn't even know it was an option. I think that is more of the case than that there is any doubt on their life.[/quote] It's a tricky situation because if the church allows implanting, some will see this as a green light for all IVF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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