Simple Question

[Mateo el Feo]

Bumping to give "OneForTruth" the opportunity to come clean and apologize for his plagiarism.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1402526' date='Oct 15 2007, 03:17 AM']Bumping to give "OneForTruth" the opportunity to come clean and apologize for his plagiarism.[/quote]

He has an ironic choice of username...

[PapaHilarious]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1402526' date='Oct 14 2007, 07:17 PM']Bumping to give "OneForTruth" the opportunity to come clean and apologize for his plagiarism.[/quote]

Don't count on it. He's switched over to the other thread he started, hoping people would forget about the cutting and pasting.

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='PapaHilarious' post='1402983' date='Oct 15 2007, 09:08 AM']Don't count on it. He's switched over to the other thread he started, hoping people would forget about the cutting and pasting. [/quote]

Calvinists are not interested in answering questions. All they want to do is present what they call "the gospel" (i.e. sola fide) to "stir our hearts" to respond to it. For them, we are either the elect or we are not. God decides that. Therefore trying to be persuasive is irrelevant (thus the ridiculous "presuppositional" approach...jeez louise): just getting the words out there to see if we are damned or not: apparently I am damned.

[jeffpugh]

In other words, reason = dangerous?

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1403144' date='Oct 15 2007, 04:24 PM']In other words, reason = dangerous?[/quote]

For some, perhaps, but I do not think that is a widely held belief. But what is widely held is that reason is absolutely insufficient as a cause of conversion because of the total depravity of man. Since it is useless it is abandoned in their evangelism: that is why their evangelism is so dominated at merely quoting the Scriptures. This is why so many of them do not answer questions. They just post Bible verses. They figure that argument is fruitless, but that the "elect" will respond to the Scriptures posted and will be converted to the "true gospel."

So while we cannot necessarily say they think reason is dangerous, we can still say "So much for reason..."

God bless,

Philip

[uruviel]

[quote]is jesus your savior?

it's a simple question.

i would think you want to say yes? if you're like most catholics you do, even though you don't follow your own belief to its logical conclusion. (which is probably why catholics are known for wretched states such as martin luther was before the reformation)

if you say yes, then you should not be saying, as most catholics do, all this stuff about how you might or might not make it to heaven. you should say that you will be saved, cause he's your savior.

if you only believe it's a possibility that you'll make it to heaven, then you have no right to declare that jesus is your savior. he only MIGHT be.

now, you might argue that someone pulling you from drowning by rope would be your savior, perhaps in a twisted sense of the meaning. but, he's not your savior till you're safe. let's not mince words here.

so i repeat, is jesus YOUR savior?[/quote]

You're saying that Christ saves us, correctly? Well it makes no sense to say he saves whoever wants to be saved. What do you have to do to be saved then? Are there any requirements for heaven? Do you just believe? So you can live like a proud sinner and claim to believe in God because he's your savior and you can do whatever you want with your soul, you are already in heaven, your spot is reserved for your dirty soul? Does it make sense to you?
So lets say God is EVERYONE'S savior, but only those who accept can be saved by Him. He won't force it on anyone, you must choose Him before He can save you. If that is what you think, then to do that your life is a consqeunce of your decision, if you choose God, then you abandom the pleasures and evils of the world. Thus to get into Heaven, you make sacrifices.
"Christ already MADE that sacrifice". Ahuh. He didn't die for you to not try, to not live like Him and get into Heaven anyway. Heaven is a reward, Heaven is a place where we give glory to God. Our lives should be the same thing, we should strive to give glory to God so that we may eternally be able to give Him glory. That comes with many sacrifices in our decision to follow Him, we must trust, we must trust that God will guide us into Heaven. But we mustn't be ignorant about it, or be frivolous with our salvation, or anyone's.
"God has already saved me. I don't have anything left to do, my work here is done, all I have to do is sit around and wait for Heaven."
It doesn't work that way. Is that love to you? Is that faith? Is that why God made you?

I have another question for you..... Is anything truth to you? Do you believe there is an objective truth? In anything?

I'm sorry for this post, I know it's incredibley unfinished, but I felt like getting a few words out, even if they are messy. And I know this comes a little late. But I'm getting used to apologies at the end of my posts.

Edited October 16, 2007 by uruviel

["Kyrie eleison"]

Where is Jesussaves? Do they just hit and run?

[desertwoman]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1403675' date='Oct 16 2007, 04:15 PM']Where is Jesussaves? Do they just hit and run?[/quote]


in another tread he/she said that he/she was leaving

["Kyrie eleison"]

Why do they do that? That's too bad, I wanted to hear him/her wiggle out of the scripture verses that proclaim there is more to salvation than just professing and or believing in Christ as your saviour.

[Starets]

[quote name='desertwoman' post='1403687' date='Oct 16 2007, 03:43 PM']in another tread he/she said that he/she was leaving[/quote]
that was OneforTruth that was leaving
i think jesussaves was a "drive by witnessing"

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Lord Philip' post='1403193' date='Oct 15 2007, 08:19 PM']For some, perhaps, but I do not think that is a widely held belief. But what is widely held is that reason is absolutely insufficient as a cause of conversion because of the total depravity of man. Since it is useless it is abandoned in their evangelism: that is why their evangelism is so dominated at merely quoting the Scriptures. This is why so many of them do not answer questions. They just post Bible verses. They figure that argument is fruitless, but that the "elect" will respond to the Scriptures posted and will be converted to the "true gospel."

So while we cannot necessarily say they think reason is dangerous, we can still say "So much for reason..."

God bless,

Philip[/quote]

I know there are a lot of Baptist/Calvinist types who think this way, but it seems like the ones I've know have actually be very much into using reason and argument for evangelization. Honestly, I find Calvinism to make a lot of sense if you accept the Sola Scriptura premise. Of course, Catholicism also makes a lot of sense even if you argued for it from Scripture alone. If we're intellectually honest, we should recognize that there is very good biblical commentary and scholarship coming from Calvinist and Reformed theologians who certainly have not abandoned reason as useless.

By the way, I believe we all agree that grace is the only sufficient means of conversion.

[S][N]

Nope. But I'm athiest so I don't count