Christ Fulfills Messianic Prophecy?

[N/A Gone]

[quote]Think your confusing Judaism with Messianic Judaism. Messianic Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah while Judaism does not since he did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.[/quote]

How does CHristiantity fulfill the messianic prophecies of the Old test?

------------------------------------------------

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-2.

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

[url="http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm"]http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm[/url]

[Apotheoun]

A. Christ and His body the Church are the true and everlasting Temple.

B. There is no mention of "the Jews" being brought to the land of Promise; instead, the text speaks of Israel being brought into the Promised Land, and the Church is the true Israel.

C. The era of world peace is already present as a seed within the Church, and when the Parousia occurs it will be fully actualized.

D. The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has brought knowledge of the God of Israel to all of mankind (i.e., God who is both Three and One), and through this divinizing knowledge (i.e., participation) humanity is made one, because Christ Jesus unites the many into one Man.

[prose]

[url="http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/ch19/default.htm"]http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadyde...h19/default.htm[/url]

[N/A Gone]

This is from website I previously linked:

A. GOD AS THREE?

The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).

Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.

In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.

B. MAN AS GOD?

Roman Catholics believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)

[dairygirl4u2c]

i always thought hte Parousia, ie the second coming to my understanding, in catholic theolgoy is already here, ie the eucharist. i've heard that claim before anyway, by catholics.

[N/A Gone]

I got a really interesting reply. Not sure how to answer it.

[quote]There are many things in which Christianity and Judaism can find compatibility. But that certain one, Jesus Christ, I would regard as a fundamental incompatibility, rather than merely a "tension" in metaphysical perspectives between the two religions.

Jesus IS NOT regarded as the incarnation of the Jewish God of the Old Testament (Yahweh) to most adherents of the Jewish faith, including rabbis and Jewish theologians. Jesus IS theologically regarded as such by the Christian religion (Nicene Council).

Not to sound pedestrian, but I don't know any other way to say it, your perspective amounts to me as: Christianity is a prophetic fulfillment of Jewish religion/theology in that Jesus is the incarnation of the God of the Old testament (Yahweh), and that people of the Jewish faith, their rabbis and theologians, simply haven't caught onto this fact as of yet.

I was born of Irish and Lithuanian parents, and grew up in the Chicago area. I was raised a Roman Catholic. I was taken to church since I was a baby, and attended a Catholic parochial school (Sacred Heart Of Jesus) from kindergarten through 8th grade, going to church everday, being an altar boy, etc, etc...

I went on to attend a very large public high school in which the student body was composed of Catholics, Protestants, and Jews. The Jews were not some small minority amongst the student body, as the village I grew up in was surrounded by some of the most heavily populated Jewish enclaves in the United States. Such enclaves fed into the student body of my high school.

The reason why I bring this up is because my experience of Catholicism and Judaism (Christian culture/Jewish culture) is quite intimate. My first lover (15-17) was Jewish. My first wife was also Jewish. Believe me when I tell you there are deep differences between the two. For years of my life, I adhered to two entirely different holiday calendars, two different set of rituals, and the expected overcoming of familial conflicts between the religions.

I ask myself now, if I was Jesus growing up as I did, who would be my people? Would it be my wife's family, my true Jewish cultural heritage, or would it be the Roman Catholics? If I merely chose one to the exclusion of the other, I would surely be leaving a part of myself behind. The other choice I would have would be to enjoy and embrace them both, knowing that on some level, both internally and externally, there would always be something fundamentally different in my experience of these two cultures that I was on such intimate terms with.

Anyway...[/quote]

I could use some help on this one.

[N/A Gone]

bump..its tough eh?

[N/A Gone]

How can we explain that catholicism is the fulfillment of the jewish metaphysic when they have such a cultural understanding and we do not?

[desertwoman]

Are you talking to a Hassidic Jew? Have you contacted some Messanic Jewish ministries?

[Seven77]

Rev,

This may be helpful:

[url="http://hebrewcatholic.org/HCLiturgicalYear/ThruHebrewCatholicYear/throughthehebrew.html"]Hebrew Catholic Liturgical Year[/url]

[Seven77]

This site is dope!

[color="#483D8B"]The Seder[/color]
[color="#000080"]The Eucharist[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](a) Mother lights two candles.[/color]

[color="#000080"](a) Altar boy/girl lights two candles.[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](b) Introductory prayers by the father, dressed in tallit (prayer shawl) and kippah (skull-cap).[/color]

[color="#000080"](b) Introductory prayers by the priest wearing a stole and skull-cap (if a Bishop).[/color]


[color="#483D8B"]© Fathers says the blessing over the first cup of wine: all drink of it.[/color]

[color="#000080"]© N/A[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](d) One of many readings.[/color]

[color="#000080"](d) Readings from the Lectionary.[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](e) Father asks four questions: explanations are given, followed by recitation of God's and man's deeds.[/color]

[color="#000080"](e) Sermon/homily by the priest or deacon.[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](f) The Ten Commandments are said.[/color]

[color="#000080"](f) The Nicene Creed is said.[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](g) The second cup of wine is blessed and all partake.[/color]

[color="#000080"](g) N/A[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](h) Father says the blessing over the matza (unleavened bread), and offers it up:

"Blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the universe,
Who brings forth bread from the earth."

The father fractures the matzah, replaces one half in the middle compartment of the three-part-matza-cover, the middle symbolizing the Passover lamb, and hides the other half, the afikoman (corruption of the Greek epikomios, meaning I have already come).[/color]

[color="#000080"](h) The priest offers up the unleavened bread:

"Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation.
Through your goodness we have this bread to offer,
which earth has given and human hands have made.
It will become for us the bread of life."

The priest fractures the consecrated Host and puts it on the Corporal.[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](i) Father offers up the third cup saying:

"Blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the universe,
Who creates the fruit of the vine."

All partake of the cup. Father blesses the fourth cup and places it in front of Elijah's chair: no one partakes of this cup, as Elijah, Messiah's precursor, is meant to partake of it.
[/color]

[color="#000080"](i) The priest offers up the chalice of wine saying:

"Blessed are you, Lord, God of all creation.
Through your goodness we have this wine to offer,
fruit of the vine and work of human hands.
It will become our spiritual drink."

The priest consecrates the unleavened bread and the wine to become the Body and Blood of Jesus.

Holy Communion.[/color]


[color="#483D8B"](j) Final prayers and songs.[/color]

[color="#000080"](j) Final prayers and songs.[/color]


[url="http://hebrewcatholic.org/christianityfrom.html"]http://hebrewcatholic.org/christianityfrom.html[/url]