Christianity And Islam

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='SaintOlaf' post='1399569' date='Oct 9 2007, 02:52 AM']I think you hit the nail on the head here, threats of hellfire really do nothing to help the situation. Either the person gets offended by your condemnation or they just become indifferent to the possibility of hell (which can lead to much more serious, atheistic views).

We are told to go into all the world and preach the Gospel, the overall message of the Gospel is Love. God loved us so he gave us a way to escape that eternal damnation. I think that's where the focus needs to be when witnessing to these groups, even if it seems to not get us anywhere, the Lord works in mysterious ways.[/quote]

I think people lose their fear of Hell because they can't see a clear connection between Hell and lack of love. Only somebody who already knows God can have a true fear of Hell, because Hell involves the loss of God. How can you fear the loss of a love that you have never acknowledged? Is it possible?

Paradoxically, if you are firm in your knowledge of that love it won't be mention of Hell that urges you back when you stray. It will be the awareness of divine forgiveness. It's never fear of damnation that takes me to Confession. It's, "I have hurt myself and my Church and I need my Abba to make us better."

I am afraid of Hell only because I know that I have the twisted power to take myself there. Fear of Hell comes with heightened self-awareness - as does love of God, for which our selves were made. This should be our guiding principle no matter who we are interacting with. I understood this for the first time when I realised that I have some unfortunate prejudices against homeless people. I was shocked to discover that the beggar in the Cambridge marketplace can speak six languages fluently and is a specialist in Etruscan history. I had always pigeon-holed the homeless as being, well, not very bright, and had adjusted my kindness and my conversation accordingly.

Mother Teresa was right when she said, "If you judge people you have no time to love them." We need to be able to go to people without judging them. Otherwise we become hateful at worst and condescending at best. "You're a Muslim, a member of a religion that I consider to be intrinsically violent and evil (no, don't speak, I know your religion better than you do) and yet I'm actually having a conversation with you (I said don't speak!) out of my great charity. Now you can look away from your false religion and know what real love is, all thanks to me!" Evangelism and interfaith dialogue can very easily become exercises in self-glorification if we're not careful.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[beatty07]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1399800' date='Oct 9 2007, 07:30 AM']I think people lose their fear of Hell because they can't see a clear connection between Hell and lack of love. Only somebody who already knows God can have a true fear of Hell, because Hell involves the loss of God. How can you fear the loss of a love that you have never acknowledged? Is it possible?

Paradoxically, if you are firm in your knowledge of that love it won't be mention of Hell that urges you back when you stray. It will be the awareness of divine forgiveness. It's never fear of damnation that takes me to Confession. It's, "I have hurt myself and my Church and I need my Abba to make us better."

I am afraid of Hell only because I know that I have the twisted power to take myself there. Fear of Hell comes with heightened self-awareness - as does love of God, for which our selves were made. This should be our guiding principle no matter who we are interacting with. I understood this for the first time when I realised that I have some unfortunate prejudices against homeless people. I was shocked to discover that the beggar in the Cambridge marketplace can speak six languages fluently and is a specialist in Etruscan history. I had always pigeon-holed the homeless as being, well, not very bright, and had adjusted my kindness and my conversation accordingly.

Mother Teresa was right when she said, "If you judge people you have no time to love them." We need to be able to go to people without judging them. Otherwise we become hateful at worst and condescending at best. "You're a Muslim, a member of a religion that I consider to be intrinsically violent and evil (no, don't speak, I know your religion better than you do) and yet I'm actually having a conversation with you (I said don't speak!) out of my great charity. Now you can look away from your false religion and know what real love is, all thanks to me!" Evangelism and interfaith dialogue can very easily become exercises in self-glorification if we're not careful.[/quote]


nominated for post of the year. Do we have post of the year?

[Apotheoun]

Lack of judgment is no virtue, and religious indifferentism is a heresy condemned long ago by the Church.

That said, making proper judgments about the Islamic religion (i.e., in connection with the falsity of its teachings) is a part of evangelization and interreligious dialogue. For example, one does not have to be an adherent of the religion of Muhammad in order to know that its teachings on various theological issues are false and heretical, e.g., its doctrine of absolute predestination to either heaven or hell, its doctrine that Allah positively causes and creates all human actions (both good and evil), its denial of the divinity of Christ and the doctrine of the incarnation, and its rejection of the revealed dogma of the Trinity. Moreover, any religious discussion that ignores the theological differences between Christianity and Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is ultimately pointless, because dialogue of that kind is not founded upon the truth about God that is revealed only in the person of Jesus Christ, the sole savior of mankind.

[adt6247]

[quote name='In His Light' post='1399262' date='Oct 8 2007, 06:53 AM']Convert or burn doesn't work [/quote]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1399565' date='Oct 8 2007, 09:48 PM']I've found by experience that threats of eternal Hellfire lose their effectiveness after a while. I remember once in my teens where I was told I was going to Hell because I was Catholic and on the same day told I was going to Hell because I wasn't Catholic. It did not scare me into or out of anything. It simply made me more disillusioned.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what works -- what matters what is true. There is no salvation outside the church, regardless of what other people believe. Our salvation is purchased through the sacrifice of Christ. If we do not choose to cooperate with this most precious gift, we will perish in the eternal fire.

If that's not the avenue that you use to preach, then fine. I personally try and use example and reason. To anyone who already believes in a benevolent creator, it isn't hard to convince that we are a wicked, fallen race deserving of hell...

[dairygirl4u2c]

i'd phrase it as we are not deserving of God's grace, ie hell.
only cause some would say we deserve fire and rimestone. but that's not what exactly the case. that might be a result of none of God's grace but. there would be much wrongs that would occur without God's grace.

[CatherineM]

Equating all Muslims with the violence that a small group of Islamic Fundamentalists are responsible for is the same as condemning all Catholics for the violence of the Crusades. Knowledge is power. It also lets light into dark corners that we are afraid to go into. Last year in RCIA, I taught the section on Mary. I quoted the Qu'ran. I did so partially to shake things up a bit, but also because she is mentioned more times in the Qu'ran that she is in the New Testament. The writings about Mary in the Qu'ran are also very symbolic and majestic. No, I'm not advocating that we all become Muslims, but frankly, I spend more of my evangelization energy on the prostitutes on the street corner, and their customers, than on my peaceful, devout Muslim neighbors.

[beatty07]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1399822' date='Oct 9 2007, 10:10 AM']It doesn't matter what works -- what matters what is true.[/quote]

What do you mean by this? How can it not matter what works when we're talking about bringing souls to Christ?

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1399818' date='Oct 9 2007, 09:56 AM']Moreover, any religious discussion that ignores the theological differences between Christianity and Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is ultimately pointless, because dialogue of that kind is not founded upon the truth about God that is revealed only in the person of Jesus Christ, the sole savior of mankind.[/quote]

True... but other-than-religious discussion is far from pointless if it might lead to fewer people being killed.

Edited October 9, 2007 by beatty07