Carredero, Got A Question For Ya!

[Hashbrowns]

so, what do you need from your god, if anything?

[carrdero]

[quote name='Hashbrowns' post='1401210' date='Oct 12 2007, 11:07 AM']so, what do you need from your god, if anything?[/quote]
Understanding from GOD is a possibility and friendship is definately assured. Can I achieve understanding and obtain friends elsewhere without a belief in GOD? Yes, but once one gets to K(NOW) GOD, one usually finds His uniqueness quite refreshing.

Edited October 12, 2007 by carrdero

[EstoVir_TheWay_4]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1401217' date='Oct 12 2007, 10:21 AM']Understanding from GOD is a possibility and friendship is definately assured. Can I achieve understanding and obtain friends elsewhere without a belief in GOD? Yes, but once one gets to K(NOW) GOD, one usually finds His uniqueness quite refreshing.[/quote]

ok, hi. I'm new to phatmass, but I was quite taken by this conversation. I'm interested, carrdero, in trying to nail down your view of life and the ever evolving Truth, realizing (of course) that truly understanding a person can not be achieved unless one comes to exist as another.

I find it hard to comprehend life without faith or the existence of a "supreme" being. The way I see it, we [i]can[/i] live without these beliefs, but we miss the hope and the trust that can only come through faith.

[carrdero]

[quote name='EstoVir_TheWay_4' post='1401564' date='Oct 12 2007, 11:53 PM']I find it hard to comprehend life without faith or the existence of a "supreme" being. The way I see it, we [i]can[/i] live without these beliefs, but we miss the hope and the trust that can only come through faith.[/quote]

Hi EstoVir_TheWay_4

The first thing one has to do is understand the difference between, faith, belief and Truth. The belief does not exist to be courted or trusted, a belief exists to be resolved and concluded to a Truth or an Untruth. Applying faith to a belief can be likened to adding salt to a meal that does not require it. A belief is either True or it is Untrue and no amount of faith will change this. Decorating a belief with trust and faith does not bring the believer any closer to a resolve. In my experience, faith only seems to embarrass the belief, and explain to others that it is not worthy to stand by itself. This kind of favoritism only fuels doubt among other people that one is trying to explain the belief to. I compare faith (and doubt) to a form of substance abuse, and I do know some that use faith like a crutch in order to believe.

The rule of thumb is that if the possibility exists, the belief is valid no matter whether another has a difficult time agreeing or understanding your belief. Evidently and eventually every belief will have to come under scrutiny and be reasoned and compared to arrive to a Truthful or Untruthful conclusion. I feel that faith slows down or halts this process because in one’s desire to hope and want their belief to be True, they rarely never want to reason, compare or conclude the belief in fear that the outcome does not agree with other aspects of their belief system. Faith is neither Truth or trust because depending on where one has found their beliefs, the possibility of the outcome may not be in favor of the practitioner or have a positive outcome. This could result in disappointment, distrust and discouragement for the one expressing faith and possibly encourage resentment to other beliefs that have yet to be resolved. This possibility could only happen with faith, the one who understands how to believe has the right and freedom to believe everything but not to accept anything until it is proven to be a Truth or Untruth.

Edited October 13, 2007 by carrdero

[EstoVir_TheWay_4]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1401613' date='Oct 13 2007, 01:57 AM']Hi EstoVir_TheWay_4

A belief is either True or it is Untrue and no amount of faith will change this. Decorating a belief with trust and faith does not bring the believer any closer to a resolve. In my experience, faith only seems to embarrass the belief, and explain to others that it is not worthy to stand by itself. This kind of favoritism only fuels doubt among other people that one is trying to explain the belief to.[/quote]

So, from your standpoint, Truth is absolute (ever evolving to satisfy physical changes in existence), and belief is defined by the individual. I agree, but the problem I have with saying faith is an unneccesary seasoning, if you will, goes against everything I've experienced. You may scoff at my simpleness or disagree, but I'm not as impartial or removed from my emotions (bad word for it, I don't simply mean feelings, but rather desires, loves, that sort of thing) to say that I have no need to hang on to faith, a useless hope, to simply believe something, true or untrue. That would kill me.

Now I think maybe our defenitions of faith and belief are inerrelated. Faith seeks truth. One desires to know the truth, so he holds on to a hope that there is one who can show it to him. So, seeking truth, I consult the source of absolute truth (don't laugh at me for saying truth can be absolute), I turn to God who can show truth, and hopefully I choose to believe that which was shown as God's truth, which is [i]the[/i] truth.

So belief is changable on a whim, yes. But through faith, which is seeking to know the truth, we come to see the face of God. Many people confuse the term faith with the term religion. It's not the same thing. Religion stems from the gathering of people to support faith in God. Religion is human, flawed, but faith seeks truth which is perfect.

Hope this helps us both to understand one another better.

[carrdero]

[quote]EstoVir_TheWay_4 writes: Hope this helps us both to understand one another better.[/quote]
Hope (which is also a elegant name for one’s daughter) doesn’t help one to understand another better, knowledge does, and I know that this exchange has helped us better to understand one another. It was a pleasure meeting you EstoVir_TheWay_4, and welcome to Phatmass.