Carredero, Got A Question For Ya!

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1396795' date='Oct 2 2007, 06:57 PM']This I would consider purpose. Even though me and my wife thought it was wrong for our friend to get mixed up with this relationship and that both of us would not be interested in getting ourselves involved in similar circumstances, this friend thought it was important to her and for her purpose and experience.[/quote]

I don't see myself getting too involved in this thread (maybe its just not important for my purpose and experience ) but I did have a quick question/clarification. Did the friend really realize that these things WOULD happen and did she really WANT them to happen? Or did she just realize the possibility of it happening and thought she would take the chance despite the possibility? I could see the latter as being the more realistic result but could be wrong. Assuming it is the second scenario I have another question. Does a person (or animal or plant or whatever) know what the purpose of their soul is? Like does a person who's soul is supposed to attain the presidency, know that they are supposed to strive for that? Or does a cow, who's soul is destined to become my dinner, know that its soul is meant for such things? I'm assuming that they can't know, but wanted your clarification, because your last sentence sort of made it seem that this woman knew that she needed to go through this for the purpose of her soul.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1396808' date='Oct 2 2007, 07:15 PM']I believe death not to be a tradgedy, a loss or something that is unfair. Death is a Truth, you can count on it arriving from anywhere at anytime and everyone will be there to keep their appointment.[/quote]

I think this is something we both agree on. I would agree that we are not at home on earth. Though my acceptance of death is the realization of the reward to come afterward and that heaven is where we are destined to spend eternity after doing what we are called here on earth.

[thessalonian]

The purpose of this thread is to show the self-centeredness of his "religion". I think it is rather apparent. The Universalistic view he holds and all universalism removes one from the obligation to work toward the salvation of others and just becomes self indulgent intellectualization of the individual, exalting his own opinions as truths.

[carrdero]

[quote]Goldenchild17 writes: Did the friend really realize that these things WOULD happen and did she really WANT them to happen? Or did she just realize the possibility of it happening and thought she would take the chance despite the possibility? I could see the latter as being the more realistic result but could be wrong.[/quote]

The odds of this relationship working as she expected it to were really stacked against her and the writing was indeed on the wall. My wife and I just brought these aspects to her attention. I think that some people who have all or most of the choices, consequences and outcomes before them go through with the experience regardless. I sometimes have to remember that this is neither right or wrong, bad or good and looking back, I should not have gotten involved but instead remembered that some people need to find out for themself. Sometmes people have to go through the experience to perceive it first hand. Whether this is a lesson for her to learn is hard to tell but I am not disbelieving of the “classroom” characteristics that this life affords.

[quote]Goldenchild17 writes: Assuming it is the second scenario I have another question. Does a person (or animal or plant or whatever) know what the purpose of their soul is? Or does a cow, who's soul is destined to become my dinner, know that its soul is meant for such things?[/quote]

It is diffcult to understand the purpose and knowledge and the lives of animals. I believe it is because of our human perspective but I suspect that knowledge of purpose may not be necessary to their physical existence but this does not mean that they are un-knowing, just that I am unsure about what they know.

[quote]Goldenchild17 writes: Like does a person who's soul is supposed to attain the presidency, know that they are supposed to strive for that?[/quote]

There are many different ways for humans to recognize soul purpose.

In the afterlife in which a overview can be presented.

In hindsight. An adult can view purpose more easily than a child or teenager. An elderly person has a wonderful perspective on their accumulated existence.

In the now. This would be a good indication if one doesn’t yet know their purpose. One could just stop! Look around and observe where they have been, what they are doing now and where they want to be.

Sometimes other entities or events are essential to realizing purpose. There is something to be said about being in the “right” place at the “right” time.

[quote]Goldenchild17 writes: I think this is something we both agree on. I would agree that we are not at home on earth. Though my acceptance of death is the realization of the reward to come afterward and that heaven is where we are destined to spend eternity after doing what we are called here on earth.[/quote]

I believe that this is our reward. Experienceing a physical existence is a very unique challenge and a very special opportunity.

[carrdero]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1397059' date='Oct 3 2007, 12:56 PM']The purpose of this thread is to show the self-centeredness of his "religion". I think it is rather apparent.[/quote]
As it should be. Patrickism is a full-time belief system. It maintains the ability to constantly keep up on current knowledge, to try to be aware of all that is surrounding him and to reinforce the importance of living in the
K(NOW). It is by no means a selfish religion but one that insures that I have my own responsibilities, goals and priorities, beliefs up to date while still being able to recognize how much of myself I can afford to give or share to others.
[quote name='thessalonian' post='1397059' date='Oct 3 2007, 12:56 PM']The Universalistic view he holds and all universalism removes one from the obligation to work toward the salvation of others and just becomes self indulgent intellectualization of the individual, exalting his own opinions as truths.[/quote]
You cannot save something that is not in need of rescue and you cannot rescue something that has no desire to be saved. My ability to care has been well defined and is renowned amongst the people that I know and the people who have actually taken the time to get to know me. I have received no complaints. I am not out to impress or impose people with my beliefs. I will be the first person to admit that I do not have the authority, that I do not have all the facts and that I am indeed ignorant on many matters and in many ways but I will not downplay or de-emphasize my interest in my search to come to my truths.

Edited October 3, 2007 by carrdero

[jeffpugh]

Thess, no offense, but you're not getting anywhere by condemning. I think we should try the "first things". ie, the principals in which our faith is based on intellectually if you want to make a point.

[thessalonian]

SMM,

I understand your seniments. I do not have a problem with condemning false nonsense however. As I said above I do not know whether carredero would go to heaven or hell if he died this moment. I would hope that he is simply engulfed in invincible ignorance.

[carrdero]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1397415' date='Oct 4 2007, 11:29 AM']SMM,

I understand your seniments. I do not have a problem with condemning false nonsense however. As I said above I do not know whether carredero would go to heaven or hell if he died this moment. I would hope that he is simply engulfed in invincible ignorance.[/quote]
It shouldn't matter to you whether carrdero would go to heaven or to hell because carrdero is not concerned about going to heaven or hell. If the existence of God, heaven and hell does not exist, I believe that I have still led a very fortunate and rewarding phusical life with no regrets. If there exists a judgmental Superior BEing who lays claim to my ignorant existence, this BEing will do with this existence as he or she see fits anyway. I am not living an existence towards fulfilling the inability of a Heavenly Deity, I am living an existence towards fulfilling it to the best of my ability amongst these physical entities and circumstances. And if there is such an event as Judgment Day, I will tell this Supreme Being the exact same thing I am telling you.

Edited October 4, 2007 by carrdero

[thessalonian]

[quote]It shouldn't matter to you whether carrdero would go to heaven or to hell because carrdero is not concerned about going to heaven or hell.[/quote]

It shouldn't matter to me that you might burn in hell for all eternity? Thank you for making my point.

And that supreme being will tell you that you came up with your own ideas of salvation and eternity when I presented a way for you, sacrficing my own Son. And what you tell him will have little value in comparison to what you rejected.

Edited October 4, 2007 by thessalonian

[carrdero]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1397534' date='Oct 4 2007, 02:24 PM']It shouldn't matter to me that you might burn in hell for all eternity? [color="#000080"]Thank you for making my point.[/color]

And that supreme being will tell you that you came up with your own ideas of salvation and eternity when I presented a way for you, sacrficing my own Son. And what you tell him will have little value in comparison to what you rejected.[/quote]

[quote]carrdero writes: So the purpose of this thread was not an interest to listen and understand my beliefs and it was not intended to discuss, compare, debate or to reason our beliefs but to promote a false sense of superiority for yourself by pre-judging me?[/quote]

[color="#000080"]And I want to thank you for your assistance in helping to make my point. [/color]

[Mateo el Feo]

Carrdero,

The purpose of the thread appears in thess's first post. We all listened to your answers. If your answers confirm what someone thinks initially, that doesn't show anybody "pre-judging" you.

If I "pre-judged" you as a religious tourist, could you fault me for such a statement?

[jeffpugh]

Um.. wha? Never mind... It seems like a bit of a stalemate. I could be wrong though.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Hashbrowns' post='1396968' date='Oct 3 2007, 01:28 AM']"Not every soul chooses a peaceful deathbed passing and we all know how impatient humans can become waiting for the next Natural disaster to occur (and don't get me started on the price of airfare needed to reach some of these disasters). Many people may not be courageous enough to end their own life and diseases would seem an unpleasant experience to encourage. Some people may find murder an unappealing way to exit this physical existence because possibly that is what they are accustomed to believe or it may be a method of death that might not be preferrable to them (dying from a car crash might be more their style). I believe death not to be a tradgedy, a loss or something that is unfair."

There's just something that feels intrinsically evil to me about this. Could you explain further? Do you see a connection between this quote from you and the Chesterton selection?[/quote]
I re-read the passage again and I think I may be missing the connection. I do not think that choosing one's exit from this physical world is “intrinsically evil” nor do I believe that there is a fear in death. On the contrary, I think it is a privilege that completes the physical experience for us. I believe if someone else decided it for us this physical existence wouldn’t be as comprehensive.

Edited October 5, 2007 by carrdero

[Hashbrowns]

Carrdero, I agree with you when you say that we shouldn't have a fear of death. What disturbs me is the idea of choosing how you wish to die. Do I misunderstand you? I believe that life is a wonderful gift of God, and that only He has to power to take it from us. To say otherwise is to take God's power from Him, an impossibility.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Hashbrowns' post='1399544' date='Oct 8 2007, 08:02 PM']Carrdero, I agree with you when you say that we shouldn't have a fear of death. What disturbs me is the idea of choosing how you wish to die. Do I misunderstand you? I believe that life is a wonderful gift of God, and that only He has to power to take it from us. To say otherwise is to take God's power from Him, an impossibility.[/quote]
If we choose and purpose our life I believe that it is only fitting, proper and practical that we choose our death. Not only is the variety ways of dying abundant ( I can think of about 10,567 different ways) but they are available for our experience. For that is what dying is, it is an essential part of the life experience. As you already have guessed, I believe that it is not GOD's will or purpose that we must do but our own. I believe that GOD has His own purpose and will and for humans to proclaim that they are fulfilling GOD's will is my idea of depowering GOD. GOD has never needed another entity's assistance in furthering and completing His purpose.
As for deciding and choosing our own individual physical purpose and existence, I believe that this is a loving quality extended from GOD. It is GOD offering us an opportunity to experience a different existence, deciding not only what physical entity we want to incarnate into but deciding just how long we want to exist before coming back home.

Edited October 9, 2007 by carrdero