Atheist Conversation

[Farsight one]

I gotta say thank goodness that these aren't the same old arguments that I've heard time and time again. I am especially tired of people rehashing Richard Dawkin's horrible refutation of Pascal's wager. This stuff is a nice change of pace.

[adt6247]

[quote name='infinitelord1' post='1393134' date='Sep 26 2007, 12:18 AM']I actually agree with this guy on a lot of the points he makes however it doesnt prove that there is no god.[/quote]
That's not his point -- his point was the refutation of simple, common arguments by evangelicals. And for the most part, he does a good job. He pigeonholes people a bit much, but it's a short piece, and not dripping with the typical arrogance you hear from Dawkins and the like.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1393254' date='Sep 26 2007, 05:13 AM']That's not his point -- his point was the refutation of simple, common arguments by evangelicals. And for the most part, he does a good job. He pigeonholes people a bit much, but it's a short piece, and not dripping with the typical arrogance you hear from Dawkins and the like.[/quote]

Yes. This gentleman doesn't come off as a know-it-all that's an atheist for the sake of being an atheist, but as someone who is sincere and genuine.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1393256' date='Sep 26 2007, 01:17 PM']Yes. This gentleman doesn't come off as a know-it-all that's an atheist for the sake of being an atheist, but as someone who is sincere and genuine.[/quote]

I've read his book, [i]I Sold My Soul on eBay[/i]. I plan to review it for the [url="http://www.rejesus.co.uk/blog"]reJesus blog[/url] as soon as I have finished my Greek assignments. It's a good book - honest, sincere, and, to use Hemant's own word, 'friendly'. He says in the book that he wants to differentiate himself from the self-proclaimed militant atheists and anti-theists. He doesn't believe that religion is evil and suggests that it is necessary as a way of ensuring social justice.

There are problems in his book. I cringed when I read some of the simplistic assessments of prayer. Hemant wonders why a sick person did not recover after being prayed for by a particular church. "Did people not pray hard enough?" I felt a little worried that he attended so many churches and still came away with this pitiful lack of comprehension. Then I remembered that he was striving to be honest with his thoughts and I couldn't fault him just for writing something that is foreign to our theology. Perhaps this is how intercessory prayer really looks from the outside. Thanks to Hemant, we know a lot more about what halts - and what motivates - a spiritual seeker.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1393129' date='Sep 25 2007, 10:07 PM']The atheist falls into logical contradiction when claiming (as this one does) that religious belief, free will, etc. are biologically determined by genes or chemical activities in the brain, and thus rejects them.

By this materialist logic, the atheism of the atheist can be dismissed in the same way. Is his disbelief merely caused by an "atheism gene"? While the atheist claims that his arguments are based on reason, human reason itself is undermined, if it is nothing more than the meaningless firing or neurons in the brain. How can one trust these purely physical processes to tell us anything about whether or not there is a God?[/quote]

an atheist gene would back up the atheist argument. it's not a spirit or god or anything that decides it's biology. human reason in the same vien being neurons and not spirit or god or anything also supports their argument.

there is a point that the physical processes might not tell us, and so we shouldn't trust their argument, and they are hypocritical to say definitely. but, it does support their arguments more than ours.

i almost want to make the atheist arguments here, cause tho i agree with the general position, people's reasons are way off.

[Semalsia]

[quote name=''Catholic Anonymous'']Hemant wonders why a sick person did not recover after being prayed for by a particular church. "Did people not pray hard enough?" I felt a little worried that he attended so many churches and still came away with this pitiful lack of comprehension. Then I remembered that he was striving to be honest with his thoughts and I couldn't fault him just for writing something that is foreign to our theology. Perhaps this is how intercessory prayer really looks from the outside.[/quote]

I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that there's some other reason to pray other than to help the sick person get better?

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1393493' date='Sep 26 2007, 12:23 PM']an atheist gene would back up the atheist argument. it's not a spirit or god or anything that decides it's biology. human reason in the same vien being neurons and not spirit or god or anything also supports their argument.

there is a point that the physical processes might not tell us, and so we shouldn't trust their argument, and they are hypocritical to say definitely. but, it does support their arguments more than ours.

i almost want to make the atheist arguments here, cause tho i agree with the general position, people's reasons are way off.[/quote]

Not necessarily, Dairygirl.

Atheism, as G.K. Chesterton and C.S. Lewis point out, necessarily heralds the destruction of thought itself. If thought is merely a chemical process, then what is so say that these chemical reactions have anything to do with truth? There is no basis for saying that a charged particle shooting through my neuron is telling me anything true or relevant to the world around me.

As C.S. Lewis says: "Why should I believe the atoms in my brain which are telling me that evolution is true?" There is no basis here for saying that our thoughts are any more significant or meaningful than the wind moving through the trees.

Since thought and truth depend on the ability to think about truth and grasp it, all philosophies, including atheism, are destroyed.

This is what I call the atom-bomb argument: is destroys everyone's perspective, but says nothing about whether God exists or not.

Farewell!

Philip

[Didacus]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1393129' date='Sep 25 2007, 10:07 PM']The atheist falls into logical contradiction when claiming (as this one does) that religious belief, free will, etc. are biologically determined by genes or chemical activities in the brain, and thus rejects them.

By this materialist logic, the atheism of the atheist can be dismissed in the same way. Is his disbelief merely caused by an "atheism gene"? While the atheist claims that his arguments are based on reason, human reason itself is undermined, if it is nothing more than the meaningless firing or neurons in the brain. How can one trust these purely physical processes to tell us anything about whether or not there is a God?[/quote]

A man who accepts tha axiom "Every man has a price." is a man who himself has a price.

Your statement is quite right Socrates, and eloquently said as well. But you try and convince them that their own logic betrays them? lol

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Semalsia' post='1393508' date='Sep 26 2007, 08:40 PM']I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that there's some other reason to pray other than to help the sick person get better?[/quote]

I am saying that prayer is not about getting what we want, through sending some kind of petition to God. (Ten signatures and He won't spare a glance, fifty signatures and you're in with a chance.) Irrespective of whether the sick person lives or dies, or whether one person prayed or ten did, that prayer mattered. It has value because God gives Himself to us through prayer. He may not come to us in the way we want or expect, but He comes to us just the same.

Prayer is an important way of tending the sick. Not just in their bodies, but in their souls. Before I sleep I pray for all the people who are ill and lonely, especially those who will die alone in the night. Hemant might not understand the purpose of this - aren't they going to die anyway? Yes. But that's not the point. The point is that I want to be with them. This is prayer.

Contemplative prayer is not about asking for anything and it doesn't even have any words. It is just silence. This is prayer, too. I think we need to explain to spiritual seekers that prayer is not something we do, but something that God does in our souls, and that it is not like cosmic grocery shopping.