I Am Politically Apathetic

[Anomaly]

Rev,
Back to the original question. Why should you be politically involved? Because you can, you're obligated too.

The philosophy in scripture is that you are to do what you can with what circumstances you are in. You live in the US that has a form of democracy. Sure, it's discouraging that often it seems that you don't make any difference, but we are called to be the yeast, or the salt, that flavors the world around us. We're to bring the 'scent of the Christ' where we go.

Read the Catechism again. It's a privilige to have a form of government that we have some sort of voice, it must be used wisely. If we have a voice or ablity to influence (regardless of how small the voice), we're obligated to add our two cents worth. Jesus changed the world not by sending his Apostles out to convert the government, they went out and converted people's hearts, then they changed the society and government. Practically any form of government would be admirable if it was guided by people with Christian principles. No form of government will be any good if we tell ourselves and others to be apathetic towards it. We have to keep our hand to the plow, keeping in mind our brothers and sisters are as flawed and as imperfect as us.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='XIX' post='1394636' date='Sep 28 2007, 12:09 AM']Look...the rest of your posts have a lot of valid points, but comments like these are so uncalled for as to render the rest of your opinion impossible to take seriously. Perhaps I would be able to overlook this if it were a fluke, but I have come to expect such comments out of you when somebody disagrees with you on politics. It is completely unnecessary to sling mud at your opponents, and it's things like that that can drag the mood of the whole phorum down.[/quote]

personally i don't mind things like that. what i think brings the phorum down is people not changing their views when it's necessary. i know i do sometimes. like right now i'm evolving my view of the IRS, somewhat. but we all could more and of course human nature not to. when ti's not things religous it's possible to change. or, if you agree with something that is not popular but goes against your status quo thought, like if you have a liberal view of something and are conservative, it'd be big and good for you to say so instead of sitting quietly. and acknowledging the good points in the other side. the lack of mature debate in this sense is what brings down the phorum.

[The Joey-O]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1394595' date='Sep 27 2007, 11:47 PM']According to many evangelicals it has become a cancer. There are books now about the evangelicals trying to stay out of politics.

So it hurt them.[/quote]

Like I said, they had Pat Robertson at the helm. Bad idea.

Are you honestly worried that the Catholic Church is going to be hurt by getting into politics?

[N/A Gone]

It was more than Robertson, it was the mentality. The two masters got a lil too close.

The american Catholic church is not the strongest thing anyway. I think getting over-involved in politics would cause harm to any individual and Church

[The Joey-O]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1395341' date='Sep 29 2007, 10:41 PM']It was more than Robertson, it was the mentality. The two masters got a lil too close.

The american Catholic church is not the strongest thing anyway. I think getting over-involved in politics would cause harm to any individual and Church[/quote]

Wow. I wonder how the Church did it for a millenium? Must have been tough.

[N/A Gone]

remember when we spoke and I told you that with this issue you sometimes come across as a [mod]Edited. --Era Might[/mod]? Yea, you just did that. The self-righteous sarcasim does not look good on you Joey.

Like I asked you today. Show me the party in america that is catholic. You did claim that we did it for so long.

[The Joey-O]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1395421' date='Sep 30 2007, 03:50 AM']remember when we spoke and I told you that with this issue you sometimes come across as a [mod]personal attack/language - Lil Red[/mod]? Yea, you just did that. The self-righteous sarcasim does not look good on you Joey.

Like I asked you today. Show me the party in america that is catholic. You did claim that we did it for so long.[/quote]

We can't have a party that's even influenced by Catholics if Catholics lack the hope and faith to get involved in politics.

Christ can transform all things, including the human institutions of politics. They are not stronger than God. And, we as a part of the Church have the RESPONSIBILITY to work to transform EVERYTHING, including politics. Politics can live in submission to God. And, politics can be used by God through His people. However, this cannot happen if his people refuse to participate in the process.

[Socrates]

[quote name='XIX' post='1394636' date='Sep 28 2007, 12:09 AM']Look...the rest of your posts have a lot of valid points, but comments like these are so uncalled for as to render the rest of your opinion impossible to take seriously. Perhaps I would be able to overlook this if it were a fluke, but I have come to expect such comments out of you when somebody disagrees with you on politics. It is completely unnecessary to sling mud at your opponents, and it's things like that that can drag the mood of the whole phorum down.[/quote]
Just to clarify, the "Budge-talk" remark was because I have argued against the exact self-same arguments regarding politics and morality from Budge.

And is the very name of Budge really so vile as to render any references thereto unacceptable on a debate forum?

I think whiny and over-sensitive posters drag the mood of the whole forum down.

[The Joey-O]

[quote name='The Joey-O' post='1395691' date='Sep 30 2007, 04:44 PM']We can't have a party that's even influenced by Catholics if Catholics lack the hope and faith to get involved in politics.

Christ can transform all things, including the human institutions of politics. They are not stronger than God. And, we as a part of the Church have the RESPONSIBILITY to work to transform EVERYTHING, including politics. Politics can live in submission to God. And, politics can be used by God through His people. However, this cannot happen if his people refuse to participate in the process.[/quote]

Revprodeji, have your responses been moderated out? Or have you not been responding to what I wrote?

Let me add to the above by saying:

We can basically approach politics in one of the two following ways:
1. Either it is inherently destructive, a perversion of proper human society.
2. Or, there is something inherently good about politics, and the current system is in need of reform. (Technically, one could say that there is something inherently good about politics and our system fully displays that good, but I don't think anybody believes that.)

Just for clarity's sake, what I mean by politics is: the science or art of governance, especially in regards to the governance of nations, states, cities, districts, territories, counties, etc. and the conduct between those governing bodies.

Edited October 1, 2007 by The Joey-O

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='The Joey-O' post='1395691' date='Sep 30 2007, 04:44 PM']We can't have a party that's even influenced by Catholics if Catholics lack the hope and faith to get involved in politics.

Christ can transform all things, including the human institutions of politics. They are not stronger than God. And, we as a part of the Church have the RESPONSIBILITY to work to transform EVERYTHING, including politics. Politics can live in submission to God. And, politics can be used by God through His people. However, this cannot happen if his people refuse to participate in the process.[/quote]

What is there to reply to?

-I disagree with the evangelical situation
The analogy of "get involved to fix" is flawed because maybe we should get involved with porn and fix that? Or get involved with organized crime? (oops, didnt Godfather already do that?) I do not see politics as a tool we should be forced to work with or even spend any energy on. I will vote for John Jameson if he is pro-life, and not James Johnson if he is pro-choice, but that is the extent of my work in politics. I could give a flip (please dont edit??) about if James Johnson smoked a bowl in high school or if John Jameson has 3 kids that are at state school. God can influence and work through his people in the private sector. Jesus and the disciples spread the message in the private sector. Not by running for senator. Politics corrupts. WHy get involved?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1396150' date='Oct 1 2007, 07:16 PM']What is there to reply to?

-I disagree with the evangelical situation
The analogy of "get involved to fix" is flawed because maybe we should get involved with porn and fix that? Or get involved with organized crime? (oops, didnt Godfather already do that?) I do not see politics as a tool we should be forced to work with or even spend any energy on. I will vote for John Jameson if he is pro-life, and not James Johnson if he is pro-choice, but that is the extent of my work in politics. I could give a flip (please dont edit??) about if James Johnson smoked a bowl in high school or if John Jameson has 3 kids that are at state school. God can influence and work through his people in the private sector. Jesus and the disciples spread the message in the private sector. Not by running for senator. Politics corrupts. WHy get involved?[/quote]Your flaw is to assume that Politics corrupt absolutely. That's just your opinion which is not held by the Catholics and taught in their Catechism (and for good reason, because it just isn't true). Some salmon don't like swimming upstream either. Politics, unlike porn, are not fundamentally immoral, just as human sexuality is not fundamentally immoral.

[N/A Gone]

Not absolutely, but there is a strong chance. I can smoke all my life and not absolutely get cancer, but why risk it?

Show me where in the catechism it deals with our political system. Not generically politics, but our political system. Or is this the same reasoning as when Joey, in his charitable asinine innervate sarcasm suggested

[quote]Wow. I wonder how the Church did it for a millennium? Must have been tough.[/quote]

Really tough, since the United states is less than 300 years old. I must have missed that part of ecclesiology.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1396156' date='Oct 1 2007, 07:39 PM']Not absolutely, but there is a strong chance. I can smoke all my life and not absolutely get cancer, but why risk it?

Show me where in the catechism it deals with our political system. Not generically politics, but our political system. Or is this the same reasoning as when Joey, in his charitable asinine innervate sarcasm suggested
Really tough, since the United states is less than 300 years old. I must have missed that part of ecclesiology.[/quote]How do you specifically define 'our political system'. The Catechism addresses "generic politics". You said you were politically apathetic because politics are inherently corrupt. I don't know what you want to say now. Are all political systems corrupt, or just the US?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1396150' date='Oct 1 2007, 05:16 PM']What is there to reply to?

-I disagree with the evangelical situation
The analogy of "get involved to fix" is flawed because maybe we should get involved with porn and fix that? Or get involved with organized crime? (oops, didnt Godfather already do that?) I do not see politics as a tool we should be forced to work with or even spend any energy on. I will vote for John Jameson if he is pro-life, and not James Johnson if he is pro-choice, but that is the extent of my work in politics. I could give a flip (please dont edit??) about if James Johnson smoked a bowl in high school or if John Jameson has 3 kids that are at state school. God can influence and work through his people in the private sector. Jesus and the disciples spread the message in the private sector. Not by running for senator. Politics corrupts. WHy get involved?[/quote]

Just my opinion, but it seems you believe politics is inherently evil, if you make such comparisons to crime and porn. Evil men ruling a good thing is not the same as the thing itself being evil. Which is why we should be even more inclined to get involved and turn it back to its intended use.

[N/A Gone]

Like the evangelicals tried? How would it be worth our time to get involved? How is that not just feeding into the dependancy of letting the federal system control everything?