Harry Potter And Temptation

[Hirsap]

I've been wanting to bring perspective to these books, drawing principles of the necessity to guard oneself from sin in entertainment.

For instance, with regard to movies, there is the principle that although some sins are merely simulated (acted without performed, such as violence), they may be an occassion of sin to us, with regard to them making/pressuring us into consenting to sentiments of revenge, hatred for the bad guy etc. "Yea I'm glad he got that".

Now as regards Harry Potter, we know of course the sorcery or magic of any kind is gravely sinful. Thus when reading the books, or watching the movies, if one has real thoughts of doing the same magic themselves, let's say in their own situation (i.e.: to help friends in mortal danger, or to hurt them, or whatever), would not this be an example of being drawn into sin via reading of it? I know HP possibly could be regarded as an alternate reality, but still, proper doing in this alternate reality is not proper in real-reality.

Of course not all are going to be tempted by a book, but would not playing with a some sort of Nintendo wii - thus physically moving to hex someone or whatnot - be simply like doing it? Of course the intention would be 'with the game only', but still, doesn't this amount to doing it all the same, in a way?

I've shared my thoughts. What are yours?

[Innocent]

One way out of this would be for parents to teach the younger generation principles of practical discernment from a younger age. That way, whatever they are exposed to, they would be prepared to understand clearly where the boundaries are.

It would also help to make bring up the children in such a way that they love the real world more than the world of virutal reality. (This is a very challenging and daunting ideal, I admit.)

[MissyP89]

While I agree that some values--seeking revenge at any cost, etc--isn't exactly healthy, I believe the books are perfectly fine, as long as the reader knows that:

1) it is fake
2) witchcraft and sorcery are unbiblical (but, as an aside, real witchcraft is nothing like the magic portrayed in the book)
3) such impulses, though meant with good intentions, are still wrong.

As long as those things are clear, I don't see why it would be a problem. The same goes for video games or TV.

[Hirsap]

[quote name='MissyP89' post='1390192' date='Sep 22 2007, 10:54 AM']While I agree that some values--seeking revenge at any cost, etc--isn't exactly healthy, I believe the books are perfectly fine, as long as the reader knows that:

1) it is fake
2) witchcraft and sorcery are unbiblical (but, as an aside, real witchcraft is nothing like the magic portrayed in the book)
3) such impulses, though meant with good intentions, are still wrong.

[b]As long as those things are clear, I don't see why it would be a problem. The same goes for video games or TV[/b].[/quote]

But when it comes to vid games, how can it be that such impulses do not come about, really?! Just speaking practically I suppose.

[cmotherofpirl]

I think video games are much more dangerous than books.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1390317' date='Sep 21 2007, 07:33 PM']I think video games are much more dangerous than books.[/quote]

Not now that video games are on CDs. Books are heavy and have sharp corners.



Seriously, though, I agree that video games are more dangerous than books in regards to sin.

[XIX]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1390317' date='Sep 21 2007, 10:33 PM']I think video games are much more dangerous than books.[/quote]
Yes. Even sports game are tempting--they can be addictive and can waste 7000 years of your life.

[adt6247]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1390317' date='Sep 21 2007, 10:33 PM']I think video games are much more dangerous than books.[/quote]
Based on??

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1392228' date='Sep 24 2007, 09:51 AM']Based on??[/quote]

Most video games are interactive, you are manipulating controls to shoot someone, blow up someone etc, in effect you are practicing violence. I think that is much more damaging to the psyche than simply reading a description.

[IgnatiusAntioch]

[quote name='Hirsap' post='1390169' date='Sep 21 2007, 08:19 PM']Now as regards Harry Potter, we know of course the sorcery or magic of any kind is gravely sinful. Thus when reading the books, or watching the movies, if one has real thoughts of doing the same magic themselves, let's say in their own situation (i.e.: to help friends in mortal danger, or to hurt them, or whatever), would not this be an example of being drawn into sin via reading of it? I know HP possibly could be regarded as an alternate reality, but still, proper doing in this alternate reality is not proper in real-reality.[/quote]

First, fantasy is just that -- fantasy. That which happens in books all come from the same posit: "What if." This applies for devout Catholic authors (Dante, Tolkien, et al) as well as for more mundane authors (such as the author of the Potter series). It is especially of note that Tolkien (and C. S. Lewis) used magic in their stories.

I would say that sin, in this context, depends on [i]why[/i] and [i]how[/i] the person desired magical abilities. If someone desires, for example, the ring of power after reading the Lord of the Rings Trilogy, it is quite different from someone who wants the ring of power after reading the Hobbit.

In the former, it is an evil device which corrupts the soul. The only reason to have it is to gain power. In the latter would be the case where someone might wish to do good (as Bilbo did in fighting Smaug).

One might make a comparison with someone's desire for a gun ([u]What if[/u] I had a gun"). Perhaps someone wishes to hunt or defend his family... On the other hand, he could desire it for wrath. Further, the same motif may be applied to the man who buys a lottery ticket thinking, "What if I won the lottery?"

Fiction, and the willful suspension of disbelief, are both very good and potentially beneficial traits of man. What if a man could be concealed as a bat, or could fly and had x-ray vision? They can aid us in improving our lives -- what if there were a carriage that needed no horse? But they can also be destructive.

The point, I suppose, is that the hypothetical is only ever contextually bad. If you fantasize about doing something which is evil, then the What If is evil. If you fantasize about doing something good, the What if is good. But, even if the hypothetical contains in it that which is foreign to us (what if humans have the ability to heal like a wolf and had adamantium claws, what if a human had power over nature, what if a man could control energy with his mind (Are the X-men magic???)), it is only evil if the intended outcome is evil.

And if I were to imagine that I am wise beyond my years? That's folly.

[IgnatiusAntioch]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1392228' date='Sep 24 2007, 09:51 AM']Based on??[/quote]

[b][i][u]DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT SAYING THAT I BELIEVE THAT VIDEO GAMES CAUSE VIOLENCE. THIS SIMPLY STATES THAT VIDEO GAMES HAVE MORE POTENTIAL TO BE VIOLENT THAN BOOKS[/u][/i][/b]

Simple. Video games have lower learning curves and require lesser attention spans.

My cousin-in-law??? Plays violent video games all the time. He readily plays Vice City. But he does not read Jurassic Park, Starship Troopers, All's Quiet on the Western Front, My Brother Sam is Dead... I could go on. Why? Those books are beyond the scope of most 5th graders.

Further, most authors, even when they are being violent, ensure that there is plot and substance. Even the most violent of individuals would bore by the time they read 200 pages of pure slaughter. Video games do not have that pre-requisite.

And finally, there is no dangerous idea in a book which has not been transplanted into some video game or another. Therefore video games contain the violence of books plus the violence of war...

Sorry, but is there any place to argue here?

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1392228' date='Sep 24 2007, 07:51 AM']Based on??[/quote]
Let me put a different spin on this: my oldest son, in particular, if allowed to play video games would be like those rats which, given the choice of pressing the button to dispense food or the button to stimulate the pleasure center in their brains, choose the latter. Apart from the horrible-ness of the content of most video games, there is the deleterious effect of the addictive nature of video games. My son likes to read a lot, including fantasy stories, of which Harry Potter is one. I don't have a problem with his reading "too much." However, I will never have a game console in our home because of the negative effects such games can have on growing children - including the health effects, and the fact that they are a waste of time - while offering little if anything positive apart from immediate gratification. In other words, and back to the original topic, I'd be far more worried about my son wasting his time, getting fat, and being poorly socialized than I would about him running off to join a coven.

[Hirsap]

[quote name='IgnatiusAntioch' post='1392295' date='Sep 25 2007, 02:43 AM']The point, I suppose, is that the hypothetical is only ever contextually bad. If you fantasize about doing something which is evil, then the What If is evil. If you fantasize about doing something good, the What if is good. But, even if the hypothetical contains in it that which is foreign to us (what if humans have the ability to heal like a wolf and had adamantium claws, what if a human had power over nature, what if a man could control energy with his mind (Are the X-men magic???)), it is only evil if the intended outcome is evil.[/quote]

While this is true relating to some what ifs, I cannot see how it would apply to the case of sorcery etc. It's irrelevent if one is desiring 'magic' to do good, or to do bad; because it's all evil, despite what one may desire to do with it. In our reality, 'magic' is never good, i.e.: one cannot desire it even as a means to a 'good' end. However, I would say that it may* be possible to contemplate it's 'good', only insofar as it [i]could[/i] exist in a [i]possible reality[/i]. In this case, of course, it would cease to be magic strictly speaking - for it would be an aspect of 'nature' willed by God. Whereas in our reality, any 'magic'/sorcery is due to praternatural interference from demons.

* I say may be possible, because some things cannot be 'contemplated' even within a different context, without consenting to the evil in one's own context. Take impurity as an example. Even if one were to imagine engaging in the marital act or pleasures involving the lead up to this act in marriage, it would still be mortally sinful, given how such imaginings are undertaken outside of the circumstances in which they are permissable.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Hirsap

[abercius24]

Personally, I really enjoy Heavy Metal music. Given my faith, I try to stay away from anything that is overtly negative, evil or scandalous. Knowing my tastes, my brother recommended a particular band -- Dragon Force. I listened to them and found their style to be exactly what I enjoy. The lyrics and attitude also seemed to be very motivating and inspirational.

One day while I was riding home on the train alone, I took the time to listen to the lyrics in more detail. I immediately became aware of what I had been listening to: songs of rising from the flames of hell to avenge those who oppress personal freedom; finding power and strength from demonic forces; finding one's purpose amidst the "freedom" of darkness. I looked up the song lyrics online and confirmed my suspicions. These guys are doing excellent and positive music with a boldly satanic approach. Needless to say, I was crushed to find such blatant evil portrayed as being beautiful and inspirational. It's literally what I have wanted to see done with Catholic music, except these guys did it for Satan. We Catholics must be very careful these days who we ally our hearts with. "Beauty" and "value" can be deceiving, especially when we are not sure where their source lies. I believe this is an excellent example of how the devil can appear as "An Angel of Light."

Edited September 25, 2007 by abercius24

[adt6247]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1392254' date='Sep 24 2007, 11:14 AM']Most video games are interactive, you are manipulating controls to shoot someone, blow up someone etc, in effect you are practicing violence. I think that is much more damaging to the psyche than simply reading a description.[/quote]
In other words, based on your personal opinion, not any research. There's been much research on the subject, and it is, to date, inconclusive. For every study that says they are harmful, there's another one that says they aren't.