Biblical Case For Schism

[Deo Iuvente]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1403473' date='Oct 16 2007, 02:20 AM']It hasn't overcome me. I'm fine, and no matter what the gates of hell sends my way, I overcome it.

I could tell you guys stories of the battles I fight against occultists, no matter what they do, I remain alive, and I bind their power with the blood of the lamb and the word of my testimony, that I am a sheep lead to the slaughter, but yea, I am more than a conqueror through him that loved me, Jesus Christ![/quote] Are you insinuating that we are a cult? please check your sources, Catholicism was the only form of christianity until the reformation. If Satan was able to steal the bride of Christ from her, soil her,destroy her, ruin her purity and sanctity, and make her one hated by Christ,as you claim, I would say that gates of hell did prevail against his church.

[quote]So, I don't think the Gates of Hell have overcome the church.[/quote] Contested.Please see above, thank you.

[quote]But you got to wonder, how hundreds of satanists posing as Catholics were able to abuse so many children.[/quote] Spouting more polemic =/=proving your case. the rate of child abuse is HIGHER in protestant churches.Now you beleive sinners are satanists, what does that then make you and me?Please.
[quote]They do it in other denominations, but you have to agree, if Satanists can get into your organization to destroy young children, then your leadership is pretty much asleep at the wheel,[/quote] Sp protestantism is despotic, utterly corrupt and satanic, and since you are making all Christian churches to be corrupt, then it would logically follow that the whole Form of the Christian religion is corrupt. Of course, that's blatantly contradictory to the bible.No I do not agree with your premise, since it's fallacious. almost every organization has bhad and will have bad leaders, but for every bad priest you can name, I can pull out a St. John bosco, or a Damian of molokai, or John vianney.
[quote]and the people who allowed them into the priesthood were obviously not intune with the spirit of God[/quote] Because Christians never make mistakes?Jesus chose peter and judas as his apostles. was he now not in tune with the spirit of God? By your logic, he wouldn't be.
[quote]because God would have never allowed that.[/quote] Because God never allows bad things to happen? Or do you know the mind of God?God chose David as king of Israel, we know how that ended. He chose Solomon as king, we know how that ended.Only one human was immaculately conceived, everyone else suffers the effect of original sin. I don't know where you see it , but in my bible,Bad things happen, and in my world, Bad things happen.

[quote]I feel sorry for all of you, that the enemy can invade your organization and destroy children like that.[/quote]
Please sir, no more polemic. It proves nothing. A debate isn't the place to throw Tu Quoques,and Ad Hominems. you and me both know that the rate of molestation is [url="http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html"]Higher among protestant clergy[/url] . I feel sorry that you want to ignore that fact that satan has invaded all churches and done this. If you went to any church, there would be women and men like that in your denomination too.Please, all these insults and rants prove nothing.You can rant about corruption all you want, Jesus still founded the catholic church on his apostles, not on your interpretation of the Scriptures.

[Pleural]

I agree that we should bring more evidence and citations into the discussion.

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1402588' date='Oct 14 2007, 10:05 PM']Please prove that he supports it, and that he said it's a matter of heaven or hell, and that Catholics are shriveling idiots who don't' know anything about science or history, and that God said anything about a Babylonian system of control as a sin.[/quote]

I was not familiar with this issue either, but I think we should do research and investigate the issue rather than arguing back and forth without evidence.
I did a google search for "benedict evolution" and came up with some interesting things:
[url="http://www.cathnews.com/news/704/52.php"]http://www.cathnews.com/news/704/52.php[/url]
[url="http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:ERfn-d3wuEkJ:www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word090106.htm+benedict+evolution&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us"]http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:ERfn-...;cd=3&gl=us[/url]
[url="http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22136550-5002700,00.html"]http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...5002700,00.html[/url]
Interestingly, the pope called the Earth "the foundation of [man's] existence" and also talked about "obedience to the voice of the Earth".

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1402588' date='Oct 14 2007, 10:05 PM']you're making an excuse. the catholic church is the body of christ, the church.
You left it. that's schism.Period.[/quote]

You ask for proof.
Please prove that the catholic church is the body of Christ.

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1402588' date='Oct 14 2007, 10:05 PM']1) all with unsubstantiated claims.
1)Christians were celebrating Christmas as early as the second century, only in February.
2) prove christmas began in the 800s.
3)you are aware that Christians were celebrating easter in the first century, right?you seem to be a historian, you should know of the Quartodeciman controversy. we have polycarp and eusebius to substantiate that claim.Halloween is on the roman martyrology?
4)where?and how does Halloween celebrate Satan? do you know it's origins? Historical documentation,please.
Good, then by you're definition,catholics are christian.
(Catechism :1005-1014,1019,599-605,619,606-609,620) And how do you figure that the catholic church isn't the church? Catholics are believers. the catholic church is the oldest Christian church, being the only founded directly by Christ.We don't let vain men decide, we let the church decided since it's the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Please prove that evolution is a dogma of the church. it should be found in the catechism.

Yes they were. Please see ephraim the syrian, hymns of the epiphany,nisibene hymns,Hegesippus;memoirs.

Please prove that also. I have yet to see a citation.

Yeah LOL XDDD! you just keep claiming without citing anything that can be used to support what you assert

Uhh...what now?! it does not change in dogma, not over 2,000 has it.it stays the same, it prevails amid heresies and adversities,
Baptism and perseverance in faith in Jesus Christ our lord until death? That's not a lot.I'm surprised that you have'nt realized that no one believed in sola fide until the reformation.Employing dicto simpliciter as an ad hominem is a logical fallacy. In fact, it's two. I can't believe you.[/quote]

Please provide citations on the celebration of Easter in the first century, which you allege occured. You say that we know about that from Eusebius, but Eusebius wrote a lot, please refer to a specific section in a specific work, preferably with a quote. Also note that Eusebius lived in the third and fourth centuries, not the first. Polycarp did indeed live in the first and second centuries, but his only surviving written work, his letter to the Philippians, does not contain any mention of Easter or its date of celebration. The so-called quartodeciman controversy was a third/fourth century issue which culminated in the Council of Nicea which was called by Constantine.


[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1404430' date='Oct 17 2007, 05:58 PM']Are you insinuating that we are a cult? please check your sources, Catholicism was the only form of christianity until the reformation. If Satan was able to steal the bride of Christ from her, soil her,destroy her, ruin her purity and sanctity, and make her one hated by Christ,as you claim, I would say that gates of hell did prevail against his church.

Contested.Please see above, thank you.[/quote]

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1404430' date='Oct 17 2007, 05:58 PM']Spouting more polemic =/=proving your case. the rate of child abuse is HIGHER in protestant churches.Now you beleive sinners are satanists, what does that then make you and me?Please.
Sp protestantism is despotic, utterly corrupt and satanic, and since you are making all Christian churches to be corrupt, then it would logically follow that the whole Form of the Christian religion is corrupt. Of course, that's blatantly contradictory to the bible.No I do not agree with your premise, since it's fallacious. almost every organization has bhad and will have bad leaders, but for every bad priest you can name, I can pull out a St. John bosco, or a Damian of molokai, or John vianney.
Because Christians never make mistakes?Jesus chose peter and judas as his apostles. was he now not in tune with the spirit of God? By your logic, he wouldn't be.
Because God never allows bad things to happen? Or do you know the mind of God?God chose David as king of Israel, we know how that ended. He chose Solomon as king, we know how that ended.Only one human was immaculately conceived, everyone else suffers the effect of original sin. I don't know where you see it , but in my bible,Bad things happen, and in my world, Bad things happen.
Please sir, no more polemic. It proves nothing. A debate isn't the place to throw Tu Quoques,and Ad Hominems. you and me both know that the rate of molestation is [url="http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html"]Higher among protestant clergy[/url] . I feel sorry that you want to ignore that fact that satan has invaded all churches and done this. If you went to any church, there would be women and men like that in your denomination too.Please, all these insults and rants prove nothing.You can rant about corruption all you want, Jesus still founded the catholic church on his apostles, not on your interpretation of the Scriptures.[/quote]

You are making a mistake when you say that the RATE of child abuse is higher in protestant churches. The article you referred to actually is about REPORTED child abuse, so from the basis of that article and the data it is based on, you can only say that the incidence of reported child abuse is higher. It is quite possible that there is far more unreported child abuse in catholic churches than in protestant churches. If you read the article, you read the following quote:
[quote]"I think the CMR numbers are striking, yet quite reasonable," says Anson Shupe, anIndiana University professor who's written books about church abuse. "To me it says Protestants are less reluctant to come forward because they don't put their clergy on as high a pedestal as Catholics do with their priests."[/quote]
That certainly seems like a reasonable comment. It's difficult to know for certain either way which church has the higher incidence of child abuse. But why bother arguing about the exact numbers? The fact that it occurs at all is tragic and the people who do it are wicked ones and are certainly not following the will of God.
It makes sense to try to look for factors related to these trends in different churches.

Regarding BG45's comments about faith "alone" versus grace, it is really irrelevant to talk about faith "alone"; faith, by definition, is faith IN something, or someone. The faith of Christians is faith in God, a faith which holds that God, in his love for us, extends his grace to us. I think you are misrepresenting most of those who claim that we are saved by faith alone when you imply that they do not recognize grace. I don't think either Martin Luther or Chick or the majority of others who claim to be saved by faith are excluding grace as the means of salvation. The idea of faith alone is that we are saved because we have faith, not because of anything inherently a part of us, or anything we do. We are able to be saved by faith BECAUSE of the grace God extends to us.

[Deo Iuvente]

b[quote name='Pleural' post='1405029' date='Oct 18 2007, 06:15 PM']I agree that we should bring more evidence and citations into the discussion.
I was not familiar with this issue either, but I think we should do research and investigate the issue rather than arguing back and forth without evidence.
I did a google search for "benedict evolution" and came up with some interesting things:
[url="http://www.cathnews.com/news/704/52.php"]http://www.cathnews.com/news/704/52.php[/url]
[url="http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:ERfn-d3wuEkJ:www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word090106.htm+benedict+evolution&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us"]http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:ERfn-...;cd=3&gl=us[/url]
[url="http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22136550-5002700,00.html"]http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,2...5002700,00.html[/url]
[quote]Interestingly, the pope called the Earth "the foundation of [man's] existence"[/quote] Meaning....?and also talked about "obedience to the voice of the Earth".[/quote] Meaning....?Please read the pope's adress ad loreto a bit more in context, he said "... and if we should be obedient to the voice of the earth, much more we must be obedient to the voice of human life." (and he goes on to say:) " ... we not only take care of the earth, but we must respect the other, other human beings ... only in absolute respect of other (humans) ...can we make progress."
See how he clarifies what he was talking about ? all this aside, I'm aware of his personal views, (It's pretty well known that he does'nt beleive in the darwinist theory, neither do I ) but the point at hand is that he claimed that the pope had proclaimed the theory of eveolution as a binding dogma of the catholic faith that all catholics must beleive, and I said there's no evidence for this, and it's logically and theologically impossible for him to do so.


[quote]You ask for proof.
Please prove that the catholic church is the body of Christ.[/quote]
The body of christ is made up of beleivers in christ.
Catholics are beleivers in christ
Therefore, catholics are part of the body of christ.
[quote]Please provide citations on the celebration of Easter in the first century, which you allege occured.[/quote] Tertullian, The Crown;4"We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries.Wew regard it as unlawfull to fast or worship on our knees on the Lord's day, We rejoice in the same privelege from the Pashal Day untill pentecost."
Also, one may read Polycrates letter to Victor of rome (ca.190) speaking of the quartodeciman controversy, which You say was'nt known untill the third /fourth century.If they' are writing about the proper day to celebrate easter in 190, it bwould logically follow that they were already celebrating it, and likewise could be logically inferred that they had been for quite some time.
[quote]that we know about that from Eusebius, but Eusebius wrote a lot, please refer to a specific section in a specific work, preferably with a quote. Also note that Eusebius lived in the third and fourth centuries, not the first.[/quote] The Chronicle,he mentions "paschal sacrifices" when speaking of the evangelist Mark announcing christ in egypt and alexandria.
[quote]Polycarp did indeed live in the first and second centuries, but his only surviving written work, his letter to the Philippians, does not contain any mention of Easter or its date of celebration.The so-called quartodeciman controversy was a third/fourth century issue which culminated in the Council of Nicea which was called by Constantine.[/quote] Contested, if Polycrates of Ephesus was writing about it in 190 it could not originate in the third or fourth century.Also,if eusebius and jerome praise polacrates for orthodox doctrine and practice, it seems to indicate that this was a sqashed controversy by then.
[quote]You are making a mistake when you say that the RATE of child abuse is higher in protestant churches. The article you referred to actually is about REPORTED child abuse, so from the basis of that article and the data it is based on, you can only say that the incidence of reported child abuse is higher. It is quite possible that there is far more unreported child abuse in catholic churches than in protestant churches. If you read the article, you read the following quote:

That certainly seems like a reasonable comment. It's difficult to know for certain either way which church has the higher incidence of child abuse. But why bother arguing about the exact numbers? The fact that it occurs at all is tragic and the people who do it are wicked ones and are certainly not following the will of God.
It makes sense to try to look for factors related to these trends in different churches.[/quote] Fair enough, But the fact still stands that he was wrong by denying on other threads that abuse ever occurs in protestant churhes.His whole argument was based on "Catholics are corrupt because they abuse children,of course,protestants don't do that.so protestantism is of God, and Catholicism is off satan."

[quote]Regarding BG45's comments about faith "alone" versus grace, it is really irrelevant to talk about faith "alone"; faith, by definition, is faith IN something, or someone. The faith of Christians is faith in God, a faith which holds that God, in his love for us, extends his grace to us. I think you are misrepresenting most of those who claim that we are saved by faith alone when you imply that they do not recognize grace. I don't think either Martin Luther or Chick or the majority of others who claim to be saved by faith are excluding grace as the means of salvation. The idea of faith alone is that we are saved because we have faith, not because of anything inherently a part of us, or anything we do. We are able to be saved by faith BECAUSE of the grace God extends to us.[/quote]It's a common mistake, akin to the idea among protestants that Catholcs are pelagians or semi-pelagians. Bioth are based upon a misundertanding,or sometimes an exaggerration of each other's beleifs.

[BG45]

Pleural and Deu Iuvente, I was trying to point out that it is indeed a common misconception, not that I believed in it. I may have misrepresented people who believe in faith alone, but, I was basing my comments on most of the people I know who believe in faith alone: That we're "Saved" by accepting Christ, then that faith is enough to save us. I've rarely heard in a church service about the component of Grace. *shrugs*

Edited October 19, 2007 by BG45

[Paddington]

[quote name='BG45' post='1405145' date='Oct 19 2007, 02:02 AM']Pleural and Deu Iuvente, I was trying to point out that it is indeed a common misconception, not that I believed in it. I may have misrepresented people who believe in faith alone, but, I was basing my comments on most of the people I know who believe in faith alone: That we're "Saved" by accepting Christ, then that faith is enough to save us. I've rarely heard in a church service about the component of Grace. *shrugs*[/quote]

I've heard it loads and loads of times from Baptist and Reformed sermons.
I also went to several services with friends at Tongues-Churches and an Emergent Church. Not so much with the grace there.

[BG45]

Not surprised by that unfortunately Paddington. I grew up in a Baptist Church, but I've also gone to a few churches where they "speak in tongues", and never really heard it there either. No clue why though.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1404430' date='Oct 17 2007, 04:58 PM']Please sir, no more polemic. It proves nothing. A debate isn't the place to throw Tu Quoques,and Ad Hominems. you and me both know that the rate of molestation is [url="http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html"]Higher among protestant clergy[/url] . I feel sorry that you want to ignore that fact that satan has invaded all churches and done this. If you went to any church, there would be women and men like that in your denomination too.Please, all these insults and rants prove nothing.You can rant about corruption all you want, Jesus still founded the catholic church on his apostles, not on your interpretation of the Scriptures.[/quote]

If you really want to know, I don't go to any church, because I know there is evil in every church. The only way you can ensure satan's influence doesn't happen in spiritual setting is learning the bible inside and out, pray about the scriptures every single day, pray to god every single day, and keep your life clean. Other people can get all messed up by satan's influence on organized christianity, but if you're not organized, and you spend time with real Christian friends, than you don't have to worry aobut it.

[GodChaser]

[quote name='BG45' post='1405704' date='Oct 19 2007, 06:09 PM']Not surprised by that unfortunately Paddington. I grew up in a Baptist Church, but I've also gone to a few churches where they "speak in tongues", and never really heard it there either. No clue why though.[/quote]
My opinion, and this is only my opinion as a former tongue talker, it is nonsense, and they are people really moved by their own lusts, itching ears, and pride to think they 'have the real thing'. What the frick is the 'real thing' in Christianity anyways? We're all learning from God, and he is leading and guiding us all, but yet, every church will say it is the real thing, despite the evils in all of them?

[IgnatiusAntioch]

[quote name='Andreas E.' post='1396422' date='Oct 2 2007, 02:07 AM']Martin Luther did not want to leave the Catholic Church, but the answers he was given by the corrupt Church authorities of his time did not satisfy him[/quote]

Due respect, but I take [i]serious[/i] issue with this statement. Martin Luther was no platonic preacher who wished for reform, he desired nothing less than the complete undermining of the Catholic Church and the reforming of her into his image. And here are some examples:
[list=1]
[*]His 95 Theses directly attacked purgatory (not merely indulgences) and stated that the Pope ought to remove all souls to heaven. (Thereby betraying a belief in cheap grace).
[*]He actively denied doctrines which were central to Church authority (I don't know how you can say you wish to be Catholic and then deny Rome).
[*]He attacked the Catholic Church actively in [i]The Two Babylons[/i].
[*]He denied the nature of the sacramentality of 1. Marriage, 2. Ordination, 3. Anointing of the sick, 4. confession (by the end), and 5. the laying on of hands (confirmation).
[*]He purposefully mistranslated portions of the Bible to fit with his particular theology. (He added the word alone after faith in Romans
[*]He did not concede anything when the Church gave in to some of his demands. He asked for a Council, in Germany, in the common tongue, which all were allowed to attend. The Council of Trent was in a German land (the Holy Roman Empire), it was in the common tongue of [i]ALL[/i] of Europe (Latin), and all were welcome to attend (though many tried to [i]prevent[/i] anyone from attending).
[/list]
To say Martin Luther did not want to leave the Catholic Church is to say, "I would like to be considered Christian, but I don't believe that God exists." The positions are inherently contradictory (and I have shown events which come from the entirety of his career, not just when he'd already left).

[Norseman82]

I was told by someone once that just as God tore the Northern Kingdom away from Solomon's successors as a punishment for corruption, He also tore the Protestants away from the Catholic Church.

Of course, we all know how well both worked out...


[quote name='GodChaser' post='1402508' date='Oct 14 2007, 08:58 PM']100 years ago, Catholics didn't believe in man-made global warming, but now if they don't fight it they're going to go to hell![/quote]

Well, DUUUHHHHH, automobiles just made their appearance, and the science probably was not there to chart temperatures and measure the ozone layer and polar ice cap like we do now.

[Justin86]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1406251' date='Oct 21 2007, 11:49 AM']Well, DUUUHHHHH, automobiles just made their appearance, and the science probably was not there to chart temperatures and measure the ozone layer and polar ice cap like we do now.[/quote]
Well, DUUUHHHHHH, it's not actually doctrine...

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1406251' date='Oct 20 2007, 08:49 PM']I was told by someone once that just as God tore the Northern Kingdom away from Solomon's successors as a punishment for corruption, He also tore the Protestants away from the Catholic Church.

Of course, we all know how well both worked out...[/quote]

God also told them asking for a King was the worst thing they could ask for. Read, and Re-Read 1st Samuel 8:5-18 again.

[quote]Well, DUUUHHHHH, automobiles just made their appearance, and the science probably was not there to chart temperatures and measure the ozone layer and polar ice cap like we do now.[/quote]

And if you believe we are actually creating the global warming phenomenon, then you are sorely mistaken. This is more about Government taking more money away from people for a 'Carbon Tax' than it is about saving the environment.

[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3069943905833454241&hl=en"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=30...54241&hl=en[/url]
[url="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/november2006/161106suvjupiter.htm"]http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/novem...6suvjupiter.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/pluto_warming_021009.html"]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/plut...ing_021009.html[/url]
[url="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060504_red_jr.html"]http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060504_red_jr.html[/url]
[url="http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Science/2006/11/09/nasa_looks_at_a_monster_storm_on_saturn/4126/"]http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Science/2006/...on_saturn/4126/[/url]
[url="http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980526052143data_trunc_sys.shtml"]http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/199805260...trunc_sys.shtml[/url]
[url="http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/092897/study.htm"]http://www.lubbockonline.com/news/092897/study.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/18/wsun18.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/18/ixnewstop.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html[/url]

All based on science that we didn't have a hundred years ago. Guess what, I believe the sun is getting warmer, and as a result, the entire solar system is getting warmer, which is consistent with all the articles I have just provided to you.

But now, the pope is saying we need to be 'good stewards', like we're not, and protect the environment. Want to know how much I believe my efforts affect the environment. In a biology textbook, there was a list of radiation sources in it, showing much much of a percentage of our radiation levels were created by what. The sun was the biggest source of radiation. So why the sun not being looked at for the global warming debate? So why is there only one side and that is global warming is 100 per cent man. I don't believe that, and I believe it is bunk.

And get the crazy thing, I don't think it is bad either. I think the earth can get warmer. In fact, there are studies that show that the Brass Age came into existance during a period of climate change, and so did the rennisance. Wow, those were such a bad time for the globe. Why are we so afraid of something that is good. This reminds me of the scripture evil men will run away from anything, including things that aren't real!

[quote name='God said @ Proverbs 28:1']The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.[/quote]

Edited October 21, 2007 by GodChaser

[Deo Iuvente]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1406269' date='Oct 20 2007, 09:20 PM']God also told them asking for a King was the worst thing they could ask for. Read, and Re-Read 1st Samuel 8:5-18 again.[/quote] Problem:
[quote name='God']You are Peter and on this rock [b]I[/b] will build [b]MY[/b] church.[/quote]
God founded his church because he wanted to.He cleansed and perfected her, he bought her with his own blood.
[quote]And if you believe we are actually creating the global warming phenomenon, then you are sorely mistaken. This is more about Government taking more money away from people for a 'Carbon Tax' than it is about saving the[/quote] Please, we've gone over this before. The catholic church defines as Dogma only Creationism,and doesn't say anything dogmatic about global warming.Trying to hold what you think (And so far have not sufficiently proved) Is the pope's personal opinion over the entire catholic church is an example of both hasty generalization and zero proof, both of which are logical fallacies. Basically, your argument against the Catholic church is fallacious since it is founded on an equally fallacious premise, with assumed premises following as proof.

Edited October 21, 2007 by Deo Iuvente

[GodChaser]

[quote name='Deo Iuvente' post='1406319' date='Oct 20 2007, 11:09 PM']Problem:

God founded his church because he wanted to.He cleansed and perfected her, he bought her with his own blood.[/quote]

God also said, study to show yourself approved, therefore, you should take personal responsibility to learn about God through his spirit and his word without the need of leadership.

[quote]Please, we've gone over this before. The catholic church defines as Dogma only Creationism,and doesn't say anything dogmatic about global warming.Trying to hold what you think (And so far have not sufficiently proved) Is the pope's personal opinion over the entire catholic church is an example of both hasty generalization and zero proof, both of which are logical fallacies. Basically, your argument against the Catholic church is fallacious since it is founded on an equally fallacious premise, with assumed premises following as proof.[/quote]

Dude, your religious zealously will destroy the world.

[quote]And if you believe we are actually creating the global warming phenomenon, then you are sorely mistaken. This is more about Government taking more money away from people for a 'Carbon Tax' than it is about saving the[/quote]

Where did I mention the Catholic Church on this one? I shall await your answer.

Edited October 21, 2007 by GodChaser

[GodChaser]

All I know is this about Schism,

When a church does something that you feel is not right, then it is not the church you should be at. If you see them doing something and your first impression is, this isn't right, and you have a knot in your stomach, you probably shouldn't engage in it.

That is the problem. Most people intellectualize religion, and come up with reasons why their religion is the right one using only their brains. Brains are a marevelous gift God has given us, but if we only use our brains, and forget our hearts and instincts, then all we become is programmable computers.

But if your emotions and your instincts come into play, than you become a whole Human Being. Whole human beings, being lead by the spirit of God, become the most dangerous, and loving people on the planet, because we realize all Christianity is, loving everybody the same way Jesus loved us, to make everybody so important we will live for them.

I will probably never join the Catholic Church, because something about organized church distrubs me? Why does God need a Pope to do his work in the world? Although this is a question and an intectual thing, it is my instincts that tell me that he doesn't.

I don't trust any organized church and I never will.