"Kyrie eleison" Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Protestants as well as Catholics have speculated about this number for years.... what does the catholic church say about the significance of this number? What are your personal thoughts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 John is writing about Nero. The number pertains to him and he's dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) I believe 659 and 661 should be guilty by association. My actual thoughts? I don't really know. Revalations is full of symbolism and as hot stuff said, he is refering to Nero. I would ponder how it pertains to Nero (b/c I can't recall the reason) Edited September 12, 2007 by CatholicCid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dismas Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' post='1383931' date='Sep 11 2007, 11:06 PM']John is writing about Nero. The number pertains to him and he's dead[/quote] I've also heard Caligula mentioned. Regardless, one beast signifies a dynasty of Pagan Roman Emperors, and the other beast the dynasty of Herod the Great. Both had it in for Jesus and the Church. I recommend Scott Hahn's [i]The Lamb's Supper[/i] for more info on Revelations. [url="http://www.getfed.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=714&AID=164&new=yes"]http://www.getfed.com/product_detail.cfm?I...164&new=yes[/url] Edited September 12, 2007 by Dismas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) Many protestants believe that it is a mark of somekind. The bible speaks of a mark on the forehead[b] that is [/b]a seal of god, [b]not [/b]a mark of the evil one. << Revelation 9:4 >> New American Standard Bible They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men [b]who do not [/b]have the seal of God on their foreheads. Edited September 12, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Whattaboutdemapples??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 What do you all think in relation to the revelation verse? [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism[/url] Chrism holy oil The most detailed version of the practice is by Cyril of Jerusalem who details how ointment or oil was "symbolically [b]applied to thy forehead[/b], and thy other organs of sense" and that the "ears, nostrils, and breast were each to be anointed." Cyril states that the[b] "ointment is the seal of the covenants" [/b]of baptism and God’s promises to the Christian who is anointed. Cyril taught that being "anointed with the oil [Chrism] of God" was the sign of a Christian, [b]and a physical representation of having the Gift of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost), [/b]and it retains this meaning in Catholicism and Orthodoxy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 What do you all think in relation to the revelation verse? [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism[/url] Chrism holy oil The most detailed version of the practice is by Cyril of Jerusalem who details how ointment or oil was "symbolically [b]applied to thy forehead[/b], and thy other organs of sense" and that the "ears, nostrils, and breast were each to be anointed." Cyril states that the[b] "ointment is the seal of the covenants" [/b]of baptism and God’s promises to the Christian who is anointed. Cyril taught that being "anointed with the oil [Chrism] of God" was the sign of a Christian, [b]and a physical representation of having the Gift of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost), [/b]and it retains this meaning in Catholicism and Orthodoxy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 What do you all think in relation to the revelation verse? [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrism[/url] Chrism holy oil The most detailed version of the practice is by Cyril of Jerusalem who details how ointment or oil was "symbolically [b]applied to thy forehead[/b], and thy other organs of sense" and that the "ears, nostrils, and breast were each to be anointed." Cyril states that the[b] "ointment is the seal of the covenants" [/b]of baptism and God’s promises to the Christian who is anointed. Cyril taught that being "anointed with the oil [Chrism] of God" was the sign of a Christian, [b]and a physical representation of having the Gift of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost), [/b]and it retains this meaning in Catholicism and Orthodoxy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 [quote name='Dismas' post='1383936' date='Sep 11 2007, 10:11 PM']I recommend Scott Hahn's [i]The Lamb's Supper[/i] for more info on Revelations. [url="http://www.getfed.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=714&AID=164&new=yes"]http://www.getfed.com/product_detail.cfm?I...164&new=yes[/url][/quote] That book is a great explanation of Revelations. Easy to understand, doesn't get too deep, but explains Revelation in a way that made sense to me after YEARS of listening to arguments about eschatalogical speculations. Gotta say, that's one argument I don't miss having. Along with, "Should baptisms be dunk or sprinkle? Adult or infant?" It's nice to have at least SOME questions answered so we can move on to more important things ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 The best explination of the number that I have heard is... The perfect number is 7. God's number is 3. (Trinity) Man's number is 6, falling just short of perfect.... 666 is man trying to make himself God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 [quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1383929' date='Sep 11 2007, 11:04 PM']Protestants as well as Catholics have speculated about this number for years.... what does the catholic church say about the significance of this number? What are your personal thoughts???[/quote] Revelation {13:15} And it was given to her to give a spirit to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would speak. And she acted so that whoever would not worship the image of the beast would be slain. ~ The "her" referred to above is a woman anti-pope (a type of Anti-Mary) who will assist Antichrist in his reign over most of the world. The beast refers to Antichrist. His image will have the ability to work false signs and wonders via fallen angels. Many true worshipers will be put to death for not worshipping the image. {13:16} And she will cause everyone, small and great, wealthy and poor, free and servant, to have a character on their right hand or on their foreheads, {13:17} so that no one may buy or sell, unless he has the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. ~ The mark of the beast is used to force the worship of the Antichrist, so that no one may obtain the necessities of life without assenting to this false worship. In that future time, faithful Christians are permitted to expropriate the goods that they need to survive; this is not stealing and is not immoral. {13:18} Here is wisdom. Whoever has intelligence, let him determine the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man, and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. ~ The number is the name of the Antichrist. His name has six letters in his first name, six letters in his middle name, and six letters in his last name. Some ancient manuscripts have the number as 616, which stands for the six letters in his first name, the one letter of his middle initial, and the six letters in his last name. This is the correct interpretation because it fits the chapter and verse numbers: 6 + 1 + 6 = 13 and 6 + 6 + 6 = 18; the chapter is 13 and the verse is 18. Furthermore, the number 600, written in Aramaic, is written as 400-200 (the character for 400 and the character for 200 joined together), therefore, one of his names (the first or the last?) will have the six letters separated by a hyphen: 4 letters – 2 letters. He will be from the area of the world where the Assyrian kingdom formerly ruled, since he is compared in Scripture to Assur (an Assyrian false god). So his name will likely be typical of that area of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 I have always found this subject matter to be very interesting consdering all the intepretations. I read somewhere that John 6:66, where the apostles turn and walk with Jesus no longer, is the mark. In John 6, Jesus is teaching about how we must eat his flesh and blood, so that we will have everlasting life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafka Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 [quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1384875' date='Sep 13 2007, 12:49 PM']I have always found this subject matter to be very interesting consdering all the intepretations. I read somewhere that John 6:66, where the apostles turn and walk with Jesus no longer, is the mark. In John 6, Jesus is teaching about how we must eat his flesh and blood, so that we will have everlasting life.[/quote] John {6:66} And so he said, “For this reason, I said to you that no one is able to come to me, unless it has been given to him by my Father.” ~I dont think this verse has anything to do with the mark of Antichrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 [quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1384875' date='Sep 13 2007, 12:49 PM']I have always found this subject matter to be very interesting consdering all the intepretations. I read somewhere that John 6:66, where the apostles turn and walk with Jesus no longer, is the mark. In John 6, Jesus is teaching about how we must eat his flesh and blood, so that we will have everlasting life.[/quote] Nah. The designation of the verses of the Bible didn't come about until the 16th century, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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