Shake Off The Dust From Your Feet. ...

[Budge]

Why do you expect a fundie Christian to LOVE your church?

I dont.

I care about the people in it, but to expect me to LOVE the Catholic Church when it preaches error to people?

Thats a bit of an expectation Im never going to fulfill for you.



Anyhow I take breaks from here all the time.

But saying that how come Im the only Christian [non-Catholic] left on this board, except one poster I saw who says he's Baptist, did they all get driven off? {theres the fence sitters like dairy as well}

Your Catholic to Prot/Christian ratio is VERY unbalanced.

Dont you want to keep acouple 'SEPERATED HEATHENS;)" around to keep things interesting?

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Budge' post='1381117' date='Sep 8 2007, 05:26 PM']You misunderstand, I want people to help the poor, cloth naked, but do a bit more then just write a check to some behemoth organization where the money will probably go for overhead then to actually help anyone.

Huge charities have become big businesses and something is lost in that way.[/quote]

As a 4th Degree Sir Knight of the KofC, one who is [b]actually a member[/b], that is not accurate. You fail to realize that we are an organization that directly helps those in need. Sometimes checks are written and given to other organizations have may have more direct contact with a specific group or function, while usually [b]we send a check DIRECTLY to the person(s) in need[/b]. Besides, the majority of the work we do is actually hands on, not sitting at a desk writing a check.

I'm not going to get into the inner workings, policies, and checkpoints that are put in place by the Supreme Council of these procedures, since I'm not in an Officer position nor have I been in the Knights [b]that[/b] long.

To view the Knights of Columbus as simply an organization that "writes checks" is not only simple minded, but plain stupid and overlooks the Mission and the History of our Order.



[quote]Couldnt that be called showing off?[/quote]

Could be. So could spamming Scripture verses on Catholic forums.


[quote]Dont you know its unbiblical to brag of your works? or even to TELL ANYONE THEM?
I cant remember the exact verse, but Jesus speaks of those using works to make themselves look good..."They have their reward"[/quote]

There is a difference between bragging, and expressing how God is working in one's life to help others. The context of the verse makes this clear. He was critizing the pharisees' pompus attituide and their bragging, because they thought that made them holy or better than others.

We, the Knights of Columbus, do so to let others know that God is blessing the labor of our hands to do His work, and to let others know there are people who are trying to make this world a better place. It's a refreshing alternative, compared to all the negative announcements that plague our media.


[quote]I dont hate anyone. I hate that powerful people like your bishops abuse the weak. I hate people being taught false doctrine. I hate people being taught a works based gospel that obliterates the true gospel of JEsus Christ.[/quote]

Are you sure about that?

Obviously if you were sincere, you would give us the benefit of the doubt, and actually listen to us.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Paladin D

[Budge]

[quote]As a 4th Degree Sir Knight of the KofC, one who is actually a member, that is not accurate. You fail to realize that we are an organization that directly helps those in need. Sometimes checks are written and given to other organizations have may have more direct contact with a specific group or function, while usually we send a check DIRECTLY to the person(s) in need. Besides, the majority of the work we do is actually hands on, not sitting at a desk writing a check.[/quote]

Actually I think things would be better with these huge charities done away with and people helping others who are in need around them. Everyone has poor people in their commmunity that need help. I think too often people build these giant organizations to do all the dirty work for them so they dont actually have to deal with those in need themselves. You all arent the only guilty ones, that problem is everywhere. I suppose if some checks go to some people in need that is a good thing.

Honestly I dont support your organization, fraternal organizations with secrecy and vows I believe are based in things that are against the Christian gospel and KNights of Columbus has too many Masonic vestiges to it. [one can even buy KNights of Columbus paraphenilia right from Masonic supply houses}

Didnt we hvae a long thread about that?

My worry for you is that your membership in this group which probobaly brings a great deal of belonging in your life and meaning, could obliterate the truth of the gospel? No one ever wants to leave friends behind in an old church or group, so for you taking an objective view of things would that much harder.




[quote]There is a difference between bragging, and expressing how God is working in one's life to help others. The context of the verse makes this clear. He was critizing the pharisees' pompus attituide and their bragging, because they thought that made them holy or better than others.[/quote]

Sure but when the Knights of the Columbus, as shown in your stats, discuss the exact dollar amounts shared, thats a problem.

The best philanthropists are the unsung heros, {ie NOT OPRAH, who uses her charity to gain world love and adoration}

[quote]Obviously if you were sincere, you would give us the benefit of the doubt, and actually listen to us.[/quote]

Actually that feeling can go both ways.

Ive been Catholic before and have considered that side before.

Why not ever consider my side seriously?

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Budge' post='1381128' date='Sep 8 2007, 04:36 PM']Why do you expect a fundie Christian to LOVE your church?

I dont.

I care about the people in it, but to expect me to LOVE the Catholic Church when it preaches error to people?

Thats a bit of an expectation Im never going to fulfill for you.



Anyhow I take breaks from here all the time.

But saying that how come Im the only Christian [non-Catholic] left on this board, except one poster I saw who says he's Baptist, did they all get driven off? {theres the fence sitters like dairy as well}

Your Catholic to Prot/Christian ratio is VERY unbalanced.

Dont you want to keep acouple 'SEPERATED HEATHENS;)" around to keep things interesting?[/quote]

Budge,

We will continue to defend our church the bride of christ, which Jesus built on the rock of Peter. Hate her if you will, it will not deter us.

Why don't you invite your fellow christians on your board to phatmass, I am very familiar with all of them, as I have posted on your board and I know how your board operates, as you ban catholic posters left and right for cut and pastes and far more than you want to admit.

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Budge' post='1381154' date='Sep 8 2007, 05:52 PM']Actually I think things would be better with these huge charities done away with and people helping others who are in need around them. Everyone has poor people in their commmunity that need help. I think too often people build these giant organizations to do all the dirty work for them so they dont actually have to deal with those in need themselves. You all arent the only guilty ones, that problem is everywhere. I suppose if some checks go to some people in need that is a good thing.[/quote]

Well Budge, the truth is, most people are selfish. That is why organizations such as the Knights of Columbus exist.

It's funny that you mention it, but the Knights started out as a small group of Catholic men at a local parish community, founded by a priest in Connecticut. Fr. Michael J. McGivney saw how Catholics were being discriminated against by American society, widowers were denied financial help from insurance companies, which is why the Knights also has an Insurance program that is one of the best in the market (only open to members and their families).

As time went on, it grew. Why? There was demand for it, Catholic men in other parishes wanted to help their brothers and sisters in Christ as well. Which is why our Order now has 1.7 million members and over 14,000 councils.


[quote]Honestly I dont support your organization, fraternal organizations with secrecy and vows I believe are based in things that are against the Christian gospel and KNights of Columbus has too many Masonic vestiges to it. [one can even buy KNights of Columbus paraphenilia right from Masonic supply houses}[/quote]

We aren't the Masons. The Masons are a secret society, we aren't. They promote their own religious doctrine through their rituals, we only promote the teachings of the Church. While the Masons keep a lot of things secretive (especially in the higher echelons of the Lodge), we only keep the Degree ceremonies secretive just to keep them special. There is no conspiracy, there is no sadistic practices, it's just to make the harmless experience more worthwhile and mysterious.

Also, the Masons are anti-Catholic. They aren't as vocal as they were in the past, but the higher you go in the Masonic Lodge, the more apparent the anti-Catholic sentiment is. The Knights and Masons aren't exactly friends.



[quote]My worry for you is that your membership in this group which probobaly brings a great deal of belonging in your life and meaning, could obliterate the truth of the gospel? No one ever wants to leave friends behind in an old church or group, so for you taking an objective view of things would that much harder.[/quote]

Well, since I'm a [b]Catholic[/b] and you're an anti-Catholic Fundie, my membership in the Knights of Columbus does not contradict my faith, it only enhances it. Pope John Paul II has praised the Knights on more than one occasion, even calling the Knights the "right arm of the Church". We are very loyal to the Roman Pontiff.


[quote]Sure but when the Knights of the Columbus, as shown in your stats, discuss the exact dollar amounts shared, thats a problem.

The best philanthropists are the unsung heros, {ie NOT OPRAH, who uses her charity to gain world love and adoration}[/quote]

So by that logic, it would be wrong to tell the stories of the heroes in uniform that have defied all odds, in many times sacrificing themselves, to save others?

The stats are only there to show others that what we are doing is [b]working[/b]. If someone were to approach us, and ask "So, are you guys actually making a difference?", we can proudly say we are, and provide the proof. [b]And the reason we have the stats up automatically, is because of such questions[/b].


[quote]Actually that feeling can go both ways.

Ive been Catholic before and have considered that side before.

Why not ever consider my side seriously?[/quote]

I was baptized Catholic, but raised as a Pentecostal/Baptist/Nondenominational (just a mix of things), but now reverted back to the Church. I've been on your side before.

Your side was taken seriously, but now your credibility has been lost. There is a difference between explaining YOUR beliefs, and inaccurately explaining OURS. Stick to what YOU believe, and we'll tell you what WE believe.
The problem is, you're telling me that [b]I[/b] believe the sky is green; but when I say I actually believe the sky is blue, you scream that I'm lieing about my own beaver dam beliefs.

You believe in Sola Scriptura (correct?), well if I said that you DO NOT believe in Sola Scriptura, after you've told me 50 times before that you do, you would get pretty upset after a while.

We have nothing against non-Catholics debating with us, we actually encourage it. We just don't like it when people come here and tell us we believe in something [b]that we do not actually believe![/b]

[Paladin D]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1381195' date='Sep 8 2007, 06:12 PM']Why don't you invite your fellow christians on your board to phatmass, I am very familiar with all of them, as I have posted on your board and I know how your board operates, as you ban catholic posters left and right for cut and pastes and far more than you want to admit.[/quote]

I find it interesting how Budge complains about censorship, yet her messageboard does the same exact thing (only to a greater extent).

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1380873' date='Sep 8 2007, 09:41 AM']What a quibble.

I know God is referred to as the Rock over 90 times in KJV alone.

So what does that tell you?[/quote]
Since you want to keep arguing thsi, let's look at the words of Matthew 16:18:
[b]"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."[/b]

Jesus Christ says to Simon: "Thou art Peter (Rock)" He clearly addresses Simon and gives him the new name Peter (Rock). [b]"Thou art Rock."[/b]

"and upon [b]this rock [/b]I will build my church" - He is clearly referring to Peter (Rock), whom he just addressed.
It is nonsensical to claim that Jesus suddenly and confusingly changed the subject mid-sentence, to refer to something entirely different.

And in the Bible, God giving someone a new name always implies giving them an important new mission: Abram to Abraham, Saul to Paul.

In this case, Christ is declaring Peter the Rock on which He will build His Church. This is followed directly by the declaration:
[b]"And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."[/b] (Matt. 16:19)
Christ gives Peter the keys to the kingdom, and the authority to bind and loose on heaven and earth.

To claim that Christ is referring to anything other than Peter in this passage is an extremely implausible twisting of the text. Budge seems unable to accept the plain meaning of Scripture, but must twist it to conform to her own doctrines.

[Socrates]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1380912' date='Sep 8 2007, 10:22 AM']Is that your response, Budge to the scripture verses??? Hmm....

Catholics have faith in every word of Jesus, Budge.[/quote]
Scripture has never been Budge's strong point.
Whenever serious scriptural discussion arises, she tries to change the subject with ad-hominem attacks.
It is clear she would rather discuss sex scandals and such instead.

[TNSeminarian]

I recently began coming to this phorum and I have been sincerely surprised by what I have seen. Both sides seem to bash the other, neither really extending Christian charity. Budge makes a lot of false accusations, and then others belitttle her (not entirely, I agree; however, there is a good deal of it), and then she returns much of the same. While I must say that I don't believe anything that she says has any merit, I don't believe that her situation is being properly handled. I don't think that she will come to belive in Holy Mother Church through this phorum, not without some extraordinary grace from Our Lord. However, as a Christian I don't think that she would deny needing prayers. St. Paul asks for prayers often in his Epistles and often offers reassurance of his own prayers. I think that the most charitable thing to do, in lieu of the present situation with Budge, who is well meaning, if misguided, is to simply ignore her posts that are baiting many of the same people, and pray for her. If she recieves no replies, or acknowledgement, even when she posts on a thread that others are honestly debating on, she will eventually stop. Regardless, however, I believe in the power of prayer and that all of us should honestly begin praying for her, and one another in order that, by God's grace, we will all be united in the Church which Christ founded on Peter. Maria, regina pacis, ora pro nobis!

[Farsight one]

[quote name='TNSeminarian' post='1381388' date='Sep 8 2007, 09:00 PM']I recently began coming to this phorum and I have been sincerely surprised by what I have seen. Both sides seem to bash the other, neither really extending Christian charity. Budge makes a lot of false accusations, and then others belitttle her (not entirely, I agree; however, there is a good deal of it), and then she returns much of the same. While I must say that I don't believe anything that she says has any merit, I don't believe that her situation is being properly handled. I don't think that she will come to belive in Holy Mother Church through this phorum, not without some extraordinary grace from Our Lord. However, as a Christian I don't think that she would deny needing prayers. St. Paul asks for prayers often in his Epistles and often offers reassurance of his own prayers. I think that the most charitable thing to do, in lieu of the present situation with Budge, who is well meaning, if misguided, is to simply ignore her posts that are baiting many of the same people, and pray for her. If she recieves no replies, or acknowledgement, even when she posts on a thread that others are honestly debating on, she will eventually stop. Regardless, however, I believe in the power of prayer and that all of us should honestly begin praying for her, and one another in order that, by God's grace, we will all be united in the Church which Christ founded on Peter. Maria, regina pacis, ora pro nobis![/quote]
Thank you! I pointed this same kind of thing out to people a while back and they brushed me off. Now I'm afraid that this general condescending attitude is starting to rub off on me too.

[Winchester]

[quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1378633' date='Sep 5 2007, 01:39 PM']Just curious in the case of Budge and others I have come across and their EFFORTS to convince us to leave the Church, when is it appropriate for one to shake the dust OFF our feet? With her every post to DISCREDIT the CHURCH she does nothing but STRENGTHEN my FAITH in the BRIDE of CHRIST.

I have noticied in her last posts that she seems to be LOSING IT and EGGING US ON and more determined to prove her case.

It is obvious that she is on a MISSION and this HATRED for the CHURCH has CONSUMED her BEING.[/quote]
When you abuse the shift button, you only stoop to her level.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1380897' date='Sep 8 2007, 11:10 AM']You know what's so amusing about all of this is?

None of us have converted to heresy because of Budge; infact, it's had the opposite affect. Our faith in Jesus Christ is getting stronger and we're becoming more determined with every post she makes.

Keep posting Budge, you're serving the Roman Pontiff and the Holy Mother Church well.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v706/PaladinD/Benedict-salute.jpg[/img][/quote]
I love that image. Maybe Budge is "Yoked to Rome" after all?

[quote name='TNSeminarian' post='1381388' date='Sep 8 2007, 09:00 PM']I recently began coming to this phorum and I have been sincerely surprised by what I have seen. Both sides seem to bash the other, neither really extending Christian charity. Budge makes a lot of false accusations, and then others belitttle her (not entirely, I agree; however, there is a good deal of it), and then she returns much of the same. While I must say that I don't believe anything that she says has any merit, I don't believe that her situation is being properly handled. I don't think that she will come to belive in Holy Mother Church through this phorum, not without some extraordinary grace from Our Lord. However, as a Christian I don't think that she would deny needing prayers. St. Paul asks for prayers often in his Epistles and often offers reassurance of his own prayers. I think that the most charitable thing to do, in lieu of the present situation with Budge, who is well meaning, if misguided, is to simply ignore her posts that are baiting many of the same people, and pray for her. If she recieves no replies, or acknowledgement, even when she posts on a thread that others are honestly debating on, she will eventually stop. Regardless, however, I believe in the power of prayer and that all of us should honestly begin praying for her, and one another in order that, by God's grace, we will all be united in the Church which Christ founded on Peter. Maria, regina pacis, ora pro nobis![/quote]
Yes, I somewhat agree. But, there are certain posts which we must answer because they make accusations which could compromise people's faith. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong... anywho, I think though that some of this "Budge bashing" relies heavily on how you interpret the posts made "against" her. Internet is bad for that...

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1381444' date='Sep 8 2007, 10:21 PM']Thank you! I pointed this same kind of thing out to people a while back and they brushed me off. Now I'm afraid that this general condescending attitude is starting to rub off on me too.[/quote]
I'm guilty of making a few "budge" puns... sorry...

[quote name='Winchester' post='1381745' date='Sep 9 2007, 01:23 PM']When you abuse the shift button, you only stoop to her level.[/quote]


Okay, maybe I just blew my credibility away by posting this quote... heh..

[prose]

[quote name='Budge' post='1381128' date='Sep 8 2007, 03:36 PM']Why do you expect a fundie Christian to LOVE your church?

I dont.

I care about the people in it, but to expect me to LOVE the Catholic Church when it preaches error to people?

Thats a bit of an expectation Im never going to fulfill for you.



Anyhow I take breaks from here all the time.

But saying that how come Im the only Christian [non-Catholic] left on this board, except one poster I saw who says he's Baptist, did they all get driven off? {theres the fence sitters like dairy as well}

Your Catholic to Prot/Christian ratio is VERY unbalanced.

Dont you want to keep acouple 'SEPERATED HEATHENS;)" around to keep things interesting?[/quote]

Um... Maybe it is unbalanced because it is a Catholic site Seems pretty simple to me and not some huge conspiracy theory.

[quote name='TNSeminarian' post='1381388' date='Sep 8 2007, 08:00 PM']I recently began coming to this phorum and I have been sincerely surprised by what I have seen. Both sides seem to bash the other, neither really extending Christian charity. Budge makes a lot of false accusations, and then others belitttle her (not entirely, I agree; however, there is a good deal of it), and then she returns much of the same. While I must say that I don't believe anything that she says has any merit, I don't believe that her situation is being properly handled. I don't think that she will come to belive in Holy Mother Church through this phorum, not without some extraordinary grace from Our Lord. However, as a Christian I don't think that she would deny needing prayers. St. Paul asks for prayers often in his Epistles and often offers reassurance of his own prayers. I think that the most charitable thing to do, in lieu of the present situation with Budge, who is well meaning, if misguided, is to simply ignore her posts that are baiting many of the same people, and pray for her. If she recieves no replies, or acknowledgement, even when she posts on a thread that others are honestly debating on, she will eventually stop. Regardless, however, I believe in the power of prayer and that all of us should honestly begin praying for her, and one another in order that, by God's grace, we will all be united in the Church which Christ founded on Peter. Maria, regina pacis, ora pro nobis![/quote]

I respond to many of Budge's posts. I think she is deceptive and misleading, and to do otherwise could risk the faith development of a person who does not know their faith or scripture as well. I think it is important to respond, not for Budge's sake, but for the sake of any Catholics that may be mislead by her hateful, and deceptive rants.

I think some people have just gotten to the point that they are so sick of showing her the obvious that they resort to throwing comments, but I certainly think to leave her posts unchallenged would do injustice to our faith.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1381745' date='Sep 9 2007, 01:23 PM']When you abuse the shift button, you only stoop to her level.[/quote]

Winchester,

Sorry, but I am no where near the level of Budge and and the hatred that she possesses, just shift button happy!

[jeffpugh]

Sorta like the forum version of "trigger happy"