Shake Off The Dust From Your Feet. ...

["Kyrie eleison"]

Just curious in the case of Budge and others I have come across and their EFFORTS to convince us to leave the Church, when is it appropriate for one to shake the dust OFF our feet? With her every post to DISCREDIT the CHURCH she does nothing but STRENGTHEN my FAITH in the BRIDE of CHRIST.

I have noticied in her last posts that she seems to be LOSING IT and EGGING US ON and more determined to prove her case.

It is obvious that she is on a MISSION and this HATRED for the CHURCH has CONSUMED her BEING.

Edited September 5, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison"

[Starets]

I've noticed.
but she is good for practicing apologetics and learning more about what catholicism really IS all about. so i don;'t take her personally

[dairygirl4u2c]

i've grown from thinking the same to appreciating her effort. she doesn't debate very well, but i think she's got points to be made if she would only try to.
that, and i think it's implied a lot when it should be said but isn't and people don't ralize, that she just disagrees inherently as a matter of value on issues. it's not a matter of logical proof so much as difference of prudence.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Staretz' post='1378667' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:31 PM']I've noticed.
but she is good for practicing apologetics and learning more about what catholicism really IS all about. so i don;'t take her personally[/quote]

I know what you are saying but does God want a person to be so CONSUMED with A HATE as THIS and when does a ONE as Budge (a fundamentalist) just agree to disagree and make an effort to foster dialouge.

If you look back at her last posts in the thread that (edit) (Dismas) started, she really was on a RAMPAGE.

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1378680' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:48 PM']i've grown from thinking the same to appreciating her effort. she doesn't debate very well, but i think she's got points to be made if she would only try to.
that, and i think it's implied a lot when it should be said but isn't and people don't ralize, that she just disagrees inherently as a matter of value on issues. it's not a matter of logical proof so much as difference of prudence.[/quote]

I have come to feel sorry for her and the hate that consumes her. The only POINT she wants to make is that she is TOTALLY the ARBITRARY AUTHORATARIAN from A-Z.

My gosh, you would think that she "believes" the Holy Spirit could[b] not[/b] LEAD his APOSTLES into ALL TRUTH, (Matthew 28:20) all these CENTURIES, before she came into BEING.

Edited September 5, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison"

[prose]

Don't mean to be rude, but the capitalized words make it difficult for me to read your posts.

That being said, I think that you can "shake the dust from your feet" and still have dialogue.

I rarely take what Budge says seriously because I know it is from a place of anger and stubbornness. I have "shaken the dust" in that I just don't let her bother me. The reason I engage at all is because if someone does not know better, her rants can mislead Catholics looking for direction. I engage, not for Budge's sake, but for the sake of those people.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='prose' post='1378716' date='Sep 5 2007, 05:00 PM']Don't mean to be rude, but the capitalized words make it difficult for me to read your posts.

That being said, I think that you can "shake the dust from your feet" and still have dialogue.

I rarely take what Budge says seriously because I know it is from a place of anger and stubbornness. I have "shaken the dust" in that I just don't let her bother me. The reason I engage at all is because if someone does not know better, her rants can mislead Catholics looking for direction. I engage, not for Budge's sake, but for the sake of those people.[/quote]Well said. I think her ignorance of religious topics is apparent; but I do think that we can all benefit by learning what anti-Catholic propoganda is out there and formulating an effective response. I wouldn't want a single one of her lies here at Phatmass to go unanswered.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[Budge]

[quote]Quote:Techniques of the Apologist

When I started my website, I debated anyone who requested debate.
I was excited to share the Bible with Catholics so that they may know the Truth
it contained that freed me from the damnable lies of Catholicism.

After a few debates, I found that the certain subsection of Catholics known as the Catholic Apologist didn't care how clear or indisputable the facts were, they were only concerned with winning the argument and defending Catholicism. The fact is the doctrines of Catholicism can not be derived from Scripture. Catholic apologists may start out presenting some Scripture verses in their "proof" but when the Christian demonstrates the actual context of the verse and brings out its true meaning, the Catholic will quickly jump to a combination of the techniques below.

I've never debated a Catholic apologist who did not quickly run over to these techniques. It didn't matter how thoroughly proven wrong they were when faced with scripture, the goal was not Truth but instead defending Catholicism.

Sadly, I soon found out that a lot of research and thought-out responses would be responded to with just a flippant, illogical, 2-second reply. I would just receive more accusations of lies and misrepresentations, although my points were never addressed, let alone refuted. I would receive just another load of propaganda and I again would take much time gathering the scriptures to show them their error. And repeatedly, their responses would be quick, cheap, thoughtless answers, unconcerned with the facts clearly given by God through scripture. I soon began to realize my hard work and research was being spent replying to those who were only skimming my articles and regurgitating the same old propaganda with no concern to what evidence or logic shows.

This brought me to my policy not to debate Catholic apologists any longer. My site is intended for the sincere Catholic who cares about what God really says and who remains lost by ignorance. There are many out there, who when faced with the Truth of God's word, will, like myself, will repent and rejoice in the salvation freely given by God paid for by the finished work of Christ's shed blood. My site is for these.

However, all the Catholic apologists I have met, can not claim that they were deceived. They have been shown their error repeatedly from the authority of God's word. They know the truth of God's word yet have rejected it. In their apologetic journeys, they have been countered with God's word time and time again, but yet they choose Catholicism and its many worldly rewards.

I have not met a Catholic apologist yet who could give me any substantial reason for their belief in Catholicism. Scripture and facts are against them. Apologetically, they haven't got a leg to stand on, which forces them to rely on extremely low quality techniques of debating. The techniques of the Catholic apologist are given below. I haven't encountered a Catholic apologist yet that used a technique other than those that I have listed below.


* 1: Rubberstamp technique


Regurgitate Catholic doctrine without providing any scriptural proof,
Otherwise, known as propaganda.



* 2: Cut-and-paste technique


Find the closest doctrinal defense on an "Catholic Answers" website,
stick it into your clipboard and post away.
Upon receiving a scriptural rebuttal,
switch the topic to Catholic infallibility
and then utilize the rubber-stamp technique.

[b]

* 3: Accusation of hate technique


Insist vehemently that your opponent is full of hate.
It is always advisable to paint your opponent as hateful.
This technique should always contain a reference,
to your extreme caringness and the limitless bounds of your great humility.
[/b]

* 4: Mystery interpretation technique


Any text can mean anything when interpreted under the
mystical interpretation technique.
Use this to your advantage then utilize the rubber-stamp technique.
Most often used with Eucharistic defenses.
Symbolic? No! Literal? No! Mysterious?
What else can you do?


* 5: Words without meaning technique


If you are receiving any roadblocks by any particular word
you previously gave in your apologetic,
or if what you've described is the definition of a word
detrimental to your defense,
simply deny the basic word meaning of the troubling term.
Due to its effectiveness,
this apologetic has become so popular
that it has been adopted by the President.


* 6. Bait and Switch technique


If your apologetics are being shot down repeatedly,
it is because you are staying on one topic for too long.
In the Catholic apologetics arena,
it is always a good idea to present a moving target.
If your perpetual virginity defense is becoming an embarrassment,
switch it to a virgin birth defense,
pretend your opponent has denied it
and act outraged at his heresy.[/list]


* 7: Attack Sola Scriptura technique


Put forth that scripture is only one of the sources of God's revelation.
However, due to the overwhelming levels of contradictory doctrines,
Of the Early Day Church Fathers
this will usually have to be accompanied
with the rubber-stamping technique.


* 8: Attack Martin Luther technique


This can be used as a companion apologetic to the
Attack Sola Scriptura technique.
Always refer to your opponent as a Protestant to imply
that “Biblical Christianity” began with the "Reformation."
Insist the opponent is a follower of Martin Luther,
or one of the other Reformers,
Do not accept any denials of this.
Rubber-stamp him as a follower of Heresy if they deny this accusation.


* 9: Stalking technique


Harass the Christian until he becomes a Catholic.
Can utilize any of the other above methods.
The object is to fill their e-mail and guestbooks daily with Catholic apologetics.
When your opponent will no longer respond to you,
insist that he is afraid to debate you.
Continue to harass them until they denounce speaking out against Catholicism
or you are at risk of losing your ISP account for a second time.
If you are about to lose your ISP a second time,
pass the baton over to a fellow Catholic apologist.


* 10: Babbling technique


Remember when you were a kid.
If you closed your eyes, danger would go away.
This technique is a variation on that theme.
When backed into a corner,
begin babbling about anything remotely related to the topic on hand and the opponent may forget
that you were ever engaged in a debate in the first place.
With all the other fine Apologetic techniques available,
this one is usually not advised.[/quote]

#3 seems to be the most popular.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]Don't mean to be rude, but the capitalized words make it difficult for me to read your posts.

That being said, I think that you can "shake the dust from your feet" and still have dialogue.

I rarely take what Budge says seriously because I know it is from a place of anger and stubbornness. I have "shaken the dust" in that I just don't let her bother me. The reason I engage at all is because if someone does not know better, her rants can mislead Catholics looking for direction. I engage, not for Budge's sake, but for the sake of those people.[/quote]

I do tend to capitalize words that I want to emphasize, sorry about that. When anything comes from a place of anger, it causes more damage than good. Yes, it it those who are weak in their teachings of the Church that can be easilly mislead and to engage for that reason, I would definitely agree!



[quote]name='Mateo el Feo' date='Sep 5 2007, 04:08 PM' post='1378723']
Well said. I think her ignorance of religious topics is apparent; but I do think that we can all benefit by learning what anti-Catholic propoganda is out there and formulating an effective response. I wouldn't want a single one of her lies here at Phatmass to go unanswered.!!![/quote]

As I said, I feel for someone who seethes that much anger and hate and wakes up every morining to do it all over again and again and again. With that said, yes, we are to be a LIGHT and to protect the truth!!!

Edited September 5, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison"

[jeffpugh]

Oh, now Budge is giving us lessons on our apologetics...

[CatholicCid]

Speaking of apologetics... I do believe Budge is still in the middle of an apologetic debate with Raphael when she has time to continue - [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=59911&st=40&start=40"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...40&start=40[/url]
I'm sure Raphael would never dive into any of the 10 ebil "apologetic techniques" (I thought it grew to 20)

Edited September 5, 2007 by CatholicCid

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Budge' post='1378747' date='Sep 5 2007, 04:45 PM']#3 seems to be the most popular.[/quote]
#6 seems to be your favorite.

[prose]

The thing is that I could post an almost identical list of ways protestants do their apologetics. At the end of the day, Budge will continue to see things her way, and I will continue to see things mine.

If she truly believes that list, why would she bother posting here? Clearly, she feels there are people here that are worthy of discussing things with.

[prose]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1378773' date='Sep 5 2007, 04:24 PM']#6 seems to be your favorite.[/quote]

Oh, let's not forget her expertise in #2 as well.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]Speaking of apologetics... I do believe Budge is still in the middle of an apologetic debate with Raphael when she has time to continue - [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...40&start=40"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...40&start=40[/url]
I'm sure Raphael would never dive into any of the 10 ebil "apologetic techniques" (I thought it grew to 20)[/quote]

And when she has time if she could address this post.
[quote]QUOTE(Budge @ Sep 1 2007, 10:47 AM)
Sad to say Catholics do not understand the idea of grace or that the price Jesus did, PAID FOR OUR SINS IN FULL...{not leaving it up to us to make reparation for or pay for them} There is no way that any human being could pay for every sin they have ever committed.

This idea of FORGIVING people and then still expecting them to be PUNISHED, is messed up. Cant you figure out that the reason Jesus died on the cross for us, is NOT BECAUSE WE DESERVED IT but because He loved us and didnt want us to be PUNISHED BY HELL?

Do you expect those you forgive to always pay the price for what they did.

Do you expect to "get even" with everyone? Does forgiveness for you entail, ok I forgive you, but make sure you pay up to every dime?

Why do you think this of God, that you have "make even" on every single sin

This is spitting on God's grace.[/quote]

Again, Budge SPURTS off and IGNORES scripture which clearly states that YOU MUST PAY in ADDITION to REPENTING and CONFESSING ONES' SIN/S and BEING FORGIVEN.

2. Samuel 12:13-15.18

David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the LORD, the child who is born to you shall die.” Then Nathan went to his house. And the LORD afflicted the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and he became sick… On the seventh day the child died.

And yes, Budge you MUST [b]PAY [/b]THE PRICE and PAY TILL the LAST PENNY.

In Matthew 5:26 Christ is condemning sin and speaks of BEING FREE[b] only after [/b]REPARATION.

"Amen, I say to you, you will not be released [b]until [/b]you have paid the last penny." Matthew 5:26

Budge, we [b]DO NOT [/b]have to pay any pennies or dimes in heaven... and from Hell there is no liberation at all; hence the reference must apply to a THIRD PLACE.

Edited September 5, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison"

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='prose' post='1378777' date='Sep 5 2007, 05:29 PM']Oh, let's not forget her expertise in #2 as well.[/quote]
Dang... I missed that one. Good catch.