Abortion And Birth Control Wrong At Al Cases

[N/A Gone]

Carrdero...play with me now.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1387992' date='Sep 18 2007, 04:52 PM']Then why would GOD have reason to take offense when the outcome does not match His perception of what is good or what is bad? What would be the purpose of designating something good or something evil? Why would GOD enact moral laws when it was He who has given us the “gift” of free will in the first place? If one believes that GOD provides the soul to an infant that is forming and knowingly sends a soul to infuse with a body that He already knows is headed for termination, does GOD not become an accomplice to murder? Does not GOD also have the same blood on His “hands”?
Why indeed. What are some other reasons that these instances should exist?
We do not even need to have sex to do this. With artificial insemination one does not even need a husband. We have hacked this code of Natural Law.
I’m sorry I’ve must have missed this presentation.[/quote]Again with the silliness. And to think people paid you money to read this?

Trying to connect thoughts into coherent order, let's step through your thoughts so we can converse.
In your opinion, is there (or isn't there) a God who decides if a human has a soul?

[carrdero]

[quote]Revprodeji writes: very faulty logic here.
Free will, as well as random interaction defies your statement. The mother does not know she is going to be sick and lose the baby. She does not know she will be in a car accident and lose the baby.[/quote]

The mother is not the one who provides the soul. Whether one believes it is GOD or the individual soul that decides to incarnate into the physical form, both know that there is going to be an accident.

[quote]Revprodeji writes: You could argue the problem for anyone murdered or any murderer. Why would God let Hitler live if he knew for certain what was going to happen?[/quote]
I believe that GOD is not judgmental and does not have an investment in what humans deem good or bad, right or wrong. I also believe that it is the spiritual entity who chooses it’s physical incarnation and it’s method of exit and not GOD. So if someone has chosen to die by another’s hand that this is neither good or bad, it is death.

[carrdero]

[quote]Anamoly writes: Again with the silliness. And to think people paid you money to read this?[/quote]
Who paid me money to read this?

[quote]Anamoly writes: In your opinion, is there (or isn't there) a God who decides if a human has a soul?[/quote]

There is a GOD but He doesn’t dole out souls. If one wants to experience a physical incarnation (and everything that this existence entails) than an individual spiritual entity chooses (and plans) a physical existence to incarnate into and it's exit. If an infant is destined for abortion than even the best laid plans that this entity has purposed itself for seem fruitless.

Edited September 18, 2007 by carrdero

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1388046' date='Sep 18 2007, 04:23 PM']There is a GOD but He doesn’t dole out souls.[b] If one wants to experience a physical incarnation (and everything that this existence entails) than an individual spiritual entity chooses (and plans) a physical existence to incarnate into and it's exit.[/b] If an infant is destined for abortion than even the best laid plans that this entity has purposed itself for seem fruitless.[/quote]

based on what?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1388046' date='Sep 18 2007, 05:23 PM']There is a GOD but He doesn’t dole out souls. If one wants to experience a physical incarnation (and everything that this existence entails) than an individual spiritual entity chooses (and plans) a physical existence to incarnate into and it's exit. If an infant is destined for abortion than even the best laid plans that this entity has purposed itself for seem fruitless.[/quote]It's obvious that we can't converse on this matter because our our different concepts of 'God' and what role that plays in declaring when a clump of cells may or may not hve a soul. Further talk would only serve the purpose of seeing our opinons in writing.
You feel that a soul chooses whether or not to live in a body, and the soul will know if the cells are destined for the vacumm cleaner or not so it won't move in.
Okay.

I wonder what I was thinking before I moved into this body and life? I want a mulligan.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Anomaly

[carrdero]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1388054' date='Sep 18 2007, 04:27 PM']based on what?[/quote]
Experience, reasoning and observation. These are just beliefs that I am trying to conclude one way or another.

[Anomaly]

carr,
So you're saying a soul can see the future at least a bit and can decide to live in a body or not?

[carrdero]

[quote]Anomaly writes: It's obvious that we can't converse on this matter because our our different concepts of 'God' and what role that plays in declaring when a clump of cells may or may not hve a soul. Further talk would only serve the purpose of seeing our opinons in writing.
You feel that a soul chooses whether or not to live in a body, and the soul will know if the cells are destined for the vacumm cleaner or not so it won't move in.
Okay.

I wonder what I was thinking before I moved into this body and life? I want a mulligan.[/quote]
It’s funny that you mention that. I also believe that the reason GOD let’s us choose our own physical existences is so that we cannot claim mulligans or feel that we were somehow gypped in this lifetime. There are no refunds or exchanges with this existence. We are personally accountable for this life, it is up to us to make the best of every day we live, we decide what memories we want to leave for the survivors. Think about it for a moment, GOD is indeed blameless in every way. I believe it is a brilliant attribute to His intelligence and a far-extending aspect to His Unconditional Love.

Edited September 18, 2007 by carrdero

[carrdero]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1388063' date='Sep 18 2007, 04:41 PM']carr,
So you're saying a soul can see the future at least a bit and can decide to live in a body or not?[/quote]
I guess what I am trying to express is that every entity existed in the spiritual realm before incarnating into a physical form. The spiritual realm contains knowledge that an entity can access because this realm is not bound by our time. We can plan our physical existences based on this knowledge for fulfilling purpose. One way to think about it is as if someone was planning a vacation. They look over the brochure and map out all the activities that they would like to accomplish and decide how long they will stay before coming back home. In the case of abortion, it is like a person planning a vacation but they know that they don’t have any way of getting there.

Edited September 18, 2007 by carrdero

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[quote name='carrdero' post='1388061' date='Sep 18 2007, 04:37 PM']Experience, reasoning and observation. These are just beliefs that I am trying to conclude one way or another.[/quote]


You have experienced and/or observed a soul that wanted a physical incarnation as well as the soul choosing that? Sir, this makes no sense.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1388082' date='Sep 18 2007, 06:06 PM']I guess what I am trying to express is that every entity existed in the spiritual realm before incarnating into a physical form. The spiritual realm contains knowledge that an entity can access because this realm is not bound by our time. We can plan our physical existences based on this knowledge for fulfilling purpose. One way to think about it is as if someone was planning a vacation. They look over the brochure and map out all the activities that they would like to accomplish and decide how long they will stay before coming back home. In the case of abortion, it is like a person planning a vacation but they know that they don’t have any way of getting there.[/quote]Oh yeah. In my next life, I want to come to earth as a woman and live in the Sudan and be raped to death in front of my family. That sounds 'X-Treme'.

Or maybe I screwed up and with my poor reading skills I thought I checked the box to have sex in Sweden but was forced to have sex in the Sudan.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1388082' date='Sep 18 2007, 06:06 PM']I guess what I am trying to express is that every entity existed in the spiritual realm before incarnating into a physical form. The spiritual realm contains knowledge that an entity can access because this realm is not bound by our time. We can plan our physical existences based on this knowledge for fulfilling purpose. One way to think about it is as if someone was planning a vacation. They look over the brochure and map out all the activities that they would like to accomplish and decide how long they will stay before coming back home. In the case of abortion, it is like a person planning a vacation but they know that they don’t have any way of getting there.[/quote]Oops. Technical error.

Wait. This isn't my life. This isn't my beautiful wife. This isn't my car. Hey. Were's the dang tour director?

Edited September 18, 2007 by Anomaly

[eperez874]

"In order to ruffle feathers. (Im very anti-abortion btw)

Your initial post is hard to follow. So I assume it is a generic anti-abortion, anti-birth control argument laced with emotional stories.

The argument that you will receive would be as followed

1.) It isnt murder because they are not alive yet, or not human yet. Thats why we dont call them babies, it is a fetus.

2.) If you want to cite old test then explain in Exodus 21 why there is a detailed description of the law of the ancient Israelities where the penalty for murder is death, but it also says that if a pregnant woman is caused to have a miscarriage, the penalty is only a fine, to be paid by the husband. Clearly murder did not apply to the fetus.

3.) Concept of fetus as a human being from the moment of conception in relatively new. St. Thomas held that an embryo does not have a soul until several weeks into the pregnancy. Aquinas accepted Aristotle's view that the soul is the "substantial form" of a man.

4.) Jeremiah has nothing to do with life, and rather speaks of God predestination for Jeremiah as a prophet.

5.) Women's right, not yours

Birth control

1.) All the same arguments from above
2.) Sex is more than just an act for procreation.
3.) Church does not have authority to control bedroom
4.) Catholic's use birth control and call it NFP. Having sex at a time when the women is not able to conceive is sex without a procreative purpose."



but still it is under the category of violence

in sientific theory of a baby being a fetus is wrong and not because i say so but because it is defenetly under one law of medics wich i will post it here pretty soon by an very antique man during the time of socrates .

[Socrates]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1388141' date='Sep 18 2007, 05:34 PM']Oh yeah. In my next life, I want to come to earth as a woman and live in the Sudan and be raped to death in front of my family. That sounds 'X-Treme'.

Or maybe I screwed up and with my poor reading skills I thought I checked the box to have sex in Sweden but was forced to have sex in the Sudan.[/quote]
Or be incarnated as a tapeworm living in someone's gut, or maybe a disease-causing bacteria . . .
Sounds like great fun, and a "fulfilling experience"!

This kind of completely irrational carp is why I gave up attempting to reason with Carderro long ago - he is utterly immune to any kind of logic or rational or coherent thought whatsoever.