Modesty: Does It Include Bare Shoulders In Church?

[adt6247]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1378610' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:12 PM']Nothing can "make" a guy take a second look, it is purely a choice on his part. Its not a woman's fault if a man isn't capable of some self-control.[/quote]
Actually, this kind of attitude makes it hard for guys who are new to the faith.

When I first started my reversion, I had a lifetime of bad habits, such as, well, eyeing women who were showing too much skin (or, as someone pointed out, wearing apparel that is overly form-fitting). When I came back to the faith, I initially saw nothing wrong with continuing this; I saw it as a victimless crime. I didn't really notice the behavior at all until I primarily hung out with women that dressed modestly, and realized how differently I reacted around them -- and by extension, thought about them -- as opposed to women that didn't. One subconsciously respects a woman less if one is consistently spending time ogling them.

Yes, I have the discipline now to not do such things, and frankly have not tempted to do since I started dating the woman who is now my betrothed. This was not, however, always the case.

Dressing modestly is a twofold thing; it is good in its own right, in the same way that it is good to veil a ciborium, because the act of covering the sacred is an act of reverence. Conversely, it is also an act of charity towards members of the opposite sex, in keeping them from the near occasion of sin.

[kateri05]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1378490' date='Sep 5 2007, 06:23 AM'][img]http://www.sophiasstyle.com/images/customimgr/communion.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.catholicsupply.com/christmas/_borders/ua314.jpg[/img]

What about sleeveless Communion dresses?[/quote]


those are darling! in fact, the first one is almost identical to my little flower girls' dresses. they looked like mini-mes, it was the most precious thing!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1378631' date='Sep 5 2007, 12:37 PM']Actually, this kind of attitude makes it hard for guys who are new to the faith.

When I first started my reversion, I had a lifetime of bad habits, such as, well, eyeing women who were showing too much skin (or, as someone pointed out, wearing apparel that is overly form-fitting). When I came back to the faith, I initially saw nothing wrong with continuing this; I saw it as a victimless crime. I didn't really notice the behavior at all until I primarily hung out with women that dressed modestly, and realized how differently I reacted around them -- and by extension, thought about them -- as opposed to women that didn't. One subconsciously respects a woman less if one is consistently spending time ogling them.

Yes, I have the discipline now to not do such things, and frankly have not tempted to do since I started dating the woman who is now my betrothed. This was not, however, always the case.

Dressing modestly is a twofold thing; it is good in its own right, in the same way that it is good to veil a ciborium, because the act of covering the sacred is an act of reverence. Conversely, it is also an act of charity towards members of the opposite sex, in keeping them from the near occasion of sin.[/quote]
Some guys are going to look twice even if a woman is dressed modestly. That's the point. In previous discussions we've had on this topic, some people have acted as though modesty and keeping men from avoiding lust were entirely a woman's responsibility, so I think cmom's comment is aimed at curbing that attitude. Men need to take custody of their own eyes, and we'll do what we can to help with that, but with some no matter how much skin a woman covers it is not enough. There must be a balance of responsibility.

Edited September 5, 2007 by Terra Firma

[Lil Red]

on the topic of modesty, i just found this modesty survey:

[url="http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey/"]Check it[/url]

they surveyed 1600 (i think) guys. its results are very telling. for example, the statement:

"Despite rampant immodesty all around us, girls who choose to dress modestly do make a difference."

over 90% of the guys either agreed or strongly agreed.

[hoosieranna]

What about dressing modestly for guys?

[knightec]

The tank top and baggy jeans are not appropriate in church. Gang attire is not appropriate, especially when you're standing in front of the bishop getting confirmed.

[XIX]

I actually started a thread about that.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=72089"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=72089[/url]

[hoosieranna]

Didn't see it. Thanks. It's a nice change of focus.

[Totus Tuus]

I was kind of taken aback that this question was even being asked. It seems like the answer would be obvious...


No, I definitely do not think that strapless clothing is appropriate inside of a Church, or anywhere public, for that matter.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1378364' date='Sep 5 2007, 12:16 AM']when you wear strapless you are conscious all the time of potential disaster.[/quote]

Very good point!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1378678' date='Sep 5 2007, 01:48 PM']on the topic of modesty, i just found this modesty survey:

[url="http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey/"]Check it[/url]

they surveyed 1600 (i think) guys. its results are very telling. for example, the statement:

"Despite rampant immodesty all around us, girls who choose to dress modestly do make a difference."

over 90% of the guys either agreed or strongly agreed.[/quote]
I'm not arguing that modest dressing doesn't make a difference (although it would be interesting to see what [i]kind[/i] of difference these guys think it makes). The question is where to draw the line, and who should bear the responsibility. When it's 95 degrees outside on a Sunday, and the air conditioning in my car is not working, I don't feel bad at all about going to church in a sleeveless dress. While I'm all about helping a brother out, guys [i]must[/i] bear some of the responsibility of restraining themselves from succumbing to the hyper-sexualization of the female form that is rampant in our culture.

It's necessary on BOTH sides to see one another and ourselves rightly.

[kafka]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1378692' date='Sep 5 2007, 03:10 PM']I was kind of taken aback that this question was even being asked. It seems like the answer would be obvious...
No, I definitely do not think that strapless clothing is appropriate inside of a Church, or anywhere public, for that matter.[/quote]

agreed

[uruviel]

strapless isn't appropriete for any occasion, I agree as well. But sleeveless, I wear sleeveless out now and again. Certainly not to Mass or adoration.

I think dressing modestly for adoration is important as well, we are in His presence, and should show the same respect for ourselves and Him that we do in Mass. I usually am more casual though, jeans and a shirt. If you go to adoration on your way home from work, it's a good idea to keep an extra shirt or cover in the back seat you can throw on before hand.

[adt6247]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1378695' date='Sep 5 2007, 04:14 PM']While I'm all about helping a brother out, guys [i]must[/i] bear some of the responsibility of restraining themselves from succumbing to the hyper-sexualization of the female form that is rampant in our culture. It's necessary on BOTH sides to see one another and ourselves rightly.[/quote]
I did not suggest otherwise; you and I are in agreement on this point. Frankly, I was also trying to convey the positives that modesty communicates to a guy, and wasn't just talking about sexualization. Feminine beauty is holy, and it's good to treat such beauty with reverence.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1378725' date='Sep 5 2007, 03:09 PM']I did not suggest otherwise; you and I are in agreement on this point. Frankly, I was also trying to convey the positives that modesty communicates to a guy, and wasn't just talking about sexualization. Feminine beauty is holy, and it's good to treat such beauty with reverence.[/quote]
I agree ... it's just that so often discussions of this sort focus wholly on what a woman is or is not wearing, and I think that's lopsided. I apologize if I came out too strongly ...