Mel Gibson's New $37m Church

[XIX]

[quote name='missionarybelle' post='1378470' date='Sep 5 2007, 03:29 AM']hm as much as I cna't stand it, they could use some Haugan-Haas "All are Welcome"[/quote]
Ugh...Haggen-Daas music and other liturgically questionable practices--stuff from the "liberal" people--are what drive people towards "conservative" excommunication in the first place. Seriously, if people were more submissive to Rome, most people would lose any reason they had to become a rad trad.

(I'm sure you are aware of this, so I'm not trying to attack you or nothing)

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1378464' date='Sep 5 2007, 01:52 AM']Just a clarification, though I'm sure you knew this, but if someone is a sedevacantist they are not usually an SSPX follower. It's two different philosophies though both (generally) consider the other in line with Catholicism.[/quote]


Yeah I did know that but thanks for making it more clear.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='XIX' post='1378505' date='Sep 5 2007, 09:22 AM']Ugh...Haggen-Daas music and other liturgically questionable practices--stuff from the "liberal" people--are what drive people towards "conservative" excommunication in the first place. Seriously, if people were more submissive to Rome, most people would lose any reason they had to become a rad trad.

(I'm sure you are aware of this, so I'm not trying to attack you or nothing)[/quote]

I think she was speaking more as a general sentiment than literally.
And you are correct, but the pendulum swings both ways. Liberals also are reacting against radical rigid traditionalism.

Unfortunately it seems people just aren't very good at finding that happy medium.

[adt6247]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1378464' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:52 AM']Just a clarification, though I'm sure you knew this, but if someone is a sedevacantist they are not usually an SSPX follower. It's two different philosophies though both (generally) consider the other in line with Catholicism.[/quote]
That's not at all true; the SSPX are tolerant of sedevacantism in their followers, and in their priests, as long as the priests don't make any public statements about it. One of their bishops (don't remember his name -- the one who said that women shouldn't go to college, because they won't be able to be obedient to their husbands if their husbands aren't more educated from them) said, when asked about whether JPII was the pope, that there was no way to know for sure.

The parish I attend wasn't always legit -- it was an independent parish that came back in line with the diocese about 6 months before I started attending. The bishop gave us a full indult to exclusively celebrate the sacraments according to the 1962 forms, and provided us with 2 priests from the diocese that were very orthodox and said the extraordinary form better than their old pastor, and yet about half the parish left, because they were mostly sedes, and they purchased an old protestant church 2 towns over, and brought the SSPX in.

[prose]

So.... ... If no one knows where the Church is, or how to get to it, or its' phone number, or any contact information, how do they have anyone going there?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='adt6247' post='1378766' date='Sep 5 2007, 04:16 PM']That's not at all true; the SSPX are tolerant of sedevacantism in their followers, and in their priests, as long as the priests don't make any public statements about it. One of their bishops (don't remember his name -- the one who said that women shouldn't go to college, because they won't be able to be obedient to their husbands if their husbands aren't more educated from them) said, when asked about whether JPII was the pope, that there was no way to know for sure.

The parish I attend wasn't always legit -- it was an independent parish that came back in line with the diocese about 6 months before I started attending. The bishop gave us a full indult to exclusively celebrate the sacraments according to the 1962 forms, and provided us with 2 priests from the diocese that were very orthodox and said the extraordinary form better than their old pastor, and yet about half the parish left, because they were mostly sedes, and they purchased an old protestant church 2 towns over, and brought the SSPX in.[/quote]

Yes, thanks for that correction. There are a number of priests that are sedevacantists. But as you point out, it is not openly supported by the organization. It is tolerated but not a part of their belief, there is a big difference. They allow it because they view it at least as a possibility and view those who hold this position to at least be Catholic. But they as an organization do not hold this view. Same as how we sedes view the SSPX position to be at least a possible explanation, and we accept the SSPX order and followers as fully Catholic. But we do disagree on the answer to what we both believe is yet another crisis situation in Church history.

[morostheos]

I personally know the Legionary priest who was the spiritual adviser for the movie The Passion of the Christ, and I also know he has had many long talks with Mel, but the priest has always been very guarded about revealing Mel's personal standing with the Catholic Church - but at least he is getting some guidance from a good source!

[Justin86]

[quote name='morostheos' post='1379355' date='Sep 6 2007, 03:54 PM']I personally know the Legionary priest who was the spiritual adviser for the movie The Passion of the Christ, and I also know he has had many long talks with Mel, but the priest has always been very guarded about revealing Mel's personal standing with the Catholic Church - but at least he is getting some guidance from a good source![/quote]
I'm not sure I would consider someone from the Legionaries of Christ nessacrily good...Rome refused to open the cause of cannonization for their founder because he was a pedophile and they are many reliable reports that it still continues in the Legion today.

The thing however that I find most puzzling is Mel's refusal to comment on all this. It's not like he would be the first rad trad in history. Nobody would really care. It just don't see what he has worth hiding.

[photosynthesis]

Has he been publicly excommunicated yet?

[brendan1104]

Justin, I don't like the Legion either, but their founder isn't even dead yet!

Mel Gibson hasn't been excommunicated, and I believe he met JP2 when the Passion was released but I'm not 99% sure. He believes in salvation for those willingly outside the Catholic Church (said so with Diane Sawyer) and again, I don't think that he's a definite sedevacantist.

[JoeyP]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1379713' date='Sep 6 2007, 04:34 PM']Justin, I don't like the Legion either, but their founder isn't even dead yet!

Mel Gibson hasn't been excommunicated, and I believe he met JP2 when the Passion was released but I'm not 99% sure. He believes in salvation for those willingly outside the Catholic Church (said so with Diane Sawyer) and again, I don't think that he's a definite sedevacantist.[/quote]


But in the Peter Boyer Interview before the Passion he said,

"I told Gibson that I am a Protestant, and asked whether his pre-Vatican II world view disqualified me from eternal salvation.
"He paused. 'There is[b] no[/b] salvation for those outside the Church,' he said. 'I believe it.' He explained, 'Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She's a much better person than I am. Honestly. She's, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it's just not fair if she doesn't make it, she's better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”[2]

So, i guess he has changed his stance or at least he is just saying that????

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1379713' date='Sep 6 2007, 02:34 PM']Justin, I don't like the Legion either, but their founder isn't even dead yet!

Mel Gibson hasn't been excommunicated, and I believe he met JP2 when the Passion was released but I'm not 99% sure. He believes in salvation for those willingly outside the Catholic Church (said so with Diane Sawyer) and again, I don't think that he's a definite sedevacantist.[/quote]

I'd be interested in where you got that information because it would certainly be a change from his past belief.

[brendan1104]

Here's the quotation from his 2004 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.

Diane Sawyer: (Voice Over) "So when we talked with Gibson and his actors, we wondered, does his traditionalist view bar the door to Heaven for Jews, Protestants, Muslims?"

Mel Gibson: "That’s not the case at all. Absolutely not. It is possible for people who are not even Christian to get into the Kingdom of Heaven. It’s just easier for –and I have to say that because that’s what I believe."

Diane Sawyer: (Off Camera) "You have the nonstop ticket?"

Mel Gibson: "Well, yeah, I’m saying it’s an easier ride where I am because it’s like –I have to believe that."

[knightec]

Was that interview done before or after his stint in the alcohol treatment facility? Or was it conducted over a few pints at Tigins?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1380629' date='Sep 7 2007, 05:36 PM']Here's the quotation from his 2004 interview with Diane Sawyer on ABC.

Diane Sawyer: (Voice Over) "So when we talked with Gibson and his actors, we wondered, does his traditionalist view bar the door to Heaven for Jews, Protestants, Muslims?"

Mel Gibson: "That’s not the case at all. Absolutely not. It is possible for people who are not even Christian to get into the Kingdom of Heaven. It’s just easier for –and I have to say that because that’s what I believe."

Diane Sawyer: (Off Camera) "You have the nonstop ticket?"

Mel Gibson: "Well, yeah, I’m saying it’s an easier ride where I am because it’s like –I have to believe that."[/quote]

Thank you, though I was referring to statements about his views toward sedevacantism. I don't have a real problem with what he said above. Especially coming from one who isn't a theologian, it could certainly be meant in an orthodox manner.

Maybe he was just doing it for his dad, but I don't understand why he would fund these church projects for sedevacantist clergy and laity if he wasn't on board.