Seriously, Budge -

[Budge]

[quote]Budge, assuming that what you say is correct, that the Catholic Church is a false church, preparing the way for the Anti-Christ, etc.,[b] what's your solution? [/b]You offer us nothing, no positive vision, only criticism. With respect, the obnoxiousness of both your message and demeanor will not lead anyone to your point of view. And please don't trot out, "sometimes the truth hurts" or any of that nonsense -- it's purely the obnoxiousness of your message and demeanor that undermines what you're trying to "share."

Think about it.[/quote]

I have posted many times on "ye must be born again"

That is what I believe.

Actually it is no surprise to Christians when many are offended by their message.

You call me obnoxious on the sole basis because of what I believe about your church.

This is the price that anyone pays who tries to witness to Catholics or plays watchmen of any kind.

Im not in this to win a popularity contest....

Why not actually consider my side....and go research for yourself. Read the Bible, pray and more....

Dont just brush me off as "anticatholic"

Listen to what I am warning about.

[url="http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html"]YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN[/url]

Edited September 4, 2007 by Budge

[Budge]

[quote]i do havea bias against the CC, and want more arguments so that i am not proven wrong. ultimately, i want to be proven wrong if that is the case but i'm just saying this shades my perspective.

I think this is more honest than most people are capable of. I'll be the first to admit that I even find myself being dishonest with myself, when I don't want to be what is true be true.

Wait. I don't think that made sense... or am I just being dishonest when I think that? Wait. I think that was honest.

Oh, forget it.[/quote]

Test all your beliefs.

And Dairy girl it is impossible to even know where you are coming from. Honestly I find your posts hard to understand and I havent even figured out what your religious beliefs even are?

One thing about people I respect is when they are willing to examine their own beliefs.

I did so and got out of the UU and got out of that error, {I of course had the help of the Holy Spirit}

Some here are more willing to examine their own beliefs more then others, but some are so cemented in, they wont even look or examine the other side.

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote]Some here are more willing to examine their own beliefs more then others, but some are so cemented in, they wont even look or examine the other side.[/quote]

Budge, I must point out the same. Examine your belief in SOLA FIDES. It is FALSE. We are not saved by GRACE or FAITH ALONE.

I have examined my beliefs and our GOOD WORKS, will be a FACTOR, in our SALVATION.

Shall we post these scriptures for you, so that you may IGNORE THEM, again...

Edited September 4, 2007 by "Kyrie eleison"

[Budge]

Do you understand the difference between Sancitification and Justificiation?

Because it seems you dont.

Justification is when a person is saved via faith, they become an adoptive child of God. You're in the family.

Sanctification is the Holy Spirit leading a person to do works, via faith, chastisement and more.

Catholics dont seem to understand the disctinction between the two.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1377707' date='Sep 4 2007, 12:22 PM']Budge, assuming that what you say is correct, that the Catholic Church is a false church, preparing the way for the Anti-Christ, etc., what's your solution? You offer us nothing, no positive vision, only criticism. With respect, the obnoxiousness of both your message and demeanor will not lead anyone to your point of view. And please don't trot out, "sometimes the truth hurts" or any of that nonsense -- it's purely the obnoxiousness of your message and demeanor that undermines what you're trying to "share."

Think about it.[/quote]I would have guessed that her alternative would have been to be a Baptist...except she doesn't really trust mainstream Baptists. In that case, I would have thought her alternative would be to be an "Independent Fundamentalist Baptist." Unfortunately, she seems to have had a falling out with her micro-denomination. Really, the only alternative is to profess allegence to whatever doctrines she holds on a particular day.

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1377716' date='Sep 4 2007, 12:30 PM']my concern is that budge doesn't engage is very in depth discussion of beliefs. i suppose though that i want someone to argue something i dn't already know and she is letting me down. i probably understand that arguments better than she does and that blinds me. i should also realize, but i don't because i'm not looking for it, really bad arguments or lack thereof from catholics. i do see lots of good arguments though from them, as they are good at it, so i don't attack them as much.[/quote]Contrary to my erroneous first negative impressions (for which I apologize), I've found that you have brought out some really good questions and discussions on topics that interest me. There's quite a gulf between Budge's polemics/propoganda and your search for truth.

PS: I find it ironic that Budge is now lamenting that she can't pidgeon hole Dairygirl into a particular set of beliefs (Budge wrote: "I havent even figured out what your religious beliefs even are"), when she just recently boasted that "Bible Christians don't have a "church brand" mentality. Our religious identification [u]is[/u] a robust statement of our beliefs.

The issue isn't whether someone has a "church brand" mentality. The real issue is: are you the subject of Budge's polemical attacks? If so, there is really nothing you can do except bear the attacks, as the Gospel teaches. At this point, though, I must admit that Budge's attacks are more comic relief than anything else.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1377853' date='Sep 4 2007, 01:57 PM']I have posted many times on "ye must be born again"

That is what I believe.

Actually it is no surprise to Christians when many are offended by their message.

You call me obnoxious on the sole basis because of what I believe about your church.

This is the price that anyone pays who tries to witness to Catholics or plays watchmen of any kind.

Im not in this to win a popularity contest....

Why not actually consider my side....and go research for yourself. Read the Bible, pray and more....

Dont just brush me off as "anticatholic"

Listen to what I am warning about.

[url="http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html"]YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN[/url][/quote]
I [i]was[/i] "born again." I then journeyed from the Church of the Nazarene to a Messianic Jewish church and, ultimately, to the Catholic Church. And, of course, I both read and prayed, and continue to read and pray.

BTW, part of the intent of my previous post was to preempt your claim that we're "offended" because you "preach the truth." You ignored me. At the very least, "witnessing" involves dialogue. All you're doing is talking at us.

Finally, I'm "offended," at least, not because you "preach the truth" but because your words and manner are offensive. Why not simply come out and say, "what you believe is stupid and you're stupid for believing it?"

["Kyrie eleison"]

[quote name='Budge' post='1377870' date='Sep 4 2007, 03:16 PM']Do you understand the difference between Sancitification and Justificiation?

Because it seems you dont.

Justification is when a person is saved via faith, they become an adoptive child of God. You're in the family.

Sanctification is the Holy Spirit leading a person to do works, via faith, chastisement and more.

Catholics dont seem to understand the disctinction between the two.[/quote]

Answer this Budge, do you say we are "Saved" by just accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, there is nothing that ONE can do to LOSE THEIR SALVATION?

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Budge' post='1377856' date='Sep 4 2007, 02:01 PM']Test all your beliefs.

...

One thing about people I respect is when they are willing to examine their own beliefs.[/quote]
As noted, I [i]did[/i] examine my beliefs, which led me to the Catholic Church. Quite a predicament for you, eh?

[quote name='Budge' post='1377856' date='Sep 4 2007, 02:01 PM']Some here are more willing to examine their own beliefs more then others, but some are so cemented in, they wont even look or examine the other side.[/quote]
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[prose]

Budge, Can you please answer:

Do you preach and post like this on non-Christian boards, for instance like the Mormons, the JWs, the Hindus or Buddhists? If not, why not? Do you not believe that those are also false beliefs leading millions to hell?

[Budge]

Do you just make up stuff as it occurs to you?

I did not have a falling out with my last indp fundie church, in fact they held a dinner for me and husband when we had to move out of town.

[Budge]

[quote]Budge, Can you please answer:

Do you preach and post like this on non-Christian boards, for instance like the Mormons, the JWs, the Hindus or Buddhists? If not, why not? Do you not believe that those are also false beliefs leading millions to hell?[/quote]

Yes, I post about other false religions quite often...especially Mormonism which has a lot in common with Catholicism.

in my old town I directly witnessed to Wiccans and pagans and Rekki participants.

I am not an EX-Hindu or Mormon or Buddhist, more directed to Catholicism because I came out of that religious bondage.

[Budge]

oops double post

Edited September 4, 2007 by Budge

[prose]

[quote name='Budge' post='1377940' date='Sep 4 2007, 03:30 PM']Yes, I post about other false religions quite often...especially Mormonism which has a lot in common with Catholicism.[/quote]

I didn't say "about" other religions. I said do you EVANGELIZE TO THEM. Do you post on their boards, in their forums? Or are we just the lucky ones?

[Budge]

[quote]QUOTE(Budge @ Sep 4 2007, 02:01 PM) *
Test all your beliefs.

...

One thing about people I respect is when they are willing to examine their own beliefs.

As noted, I did examine my beliefs, which led me to the Catholic Church. Quite a predicament for you, eh?[/quote]

Actually Im not surprised.

The Church of the Nazarene anymore seems to be a mission field for Catholicism.

Why not? Its basically a daughter joined with every ecumenical and interfaith group out there.

I havent met one Church of Nazarene member yet, {an EMERGENT board I particpated on was FULL of them} that understands the truth about Catholicism.
[quote]Participants in the January 27-29, 2003 Meeting of Christian Churches Together
Bishop Vicken Aykazian Diocese of the Armenian Church of America Participant
Commissioner W. Todd Bassett The Salvation Army Participant
Mr. John Briscoe NCCC USA Participant
Bishop Tod Brown Diocese of Orange of California Participant
Ms. Sharon Browning Sharon Browning and Associates Participant
[b]Rev. David Caudle Church of the Nazarene Participant[/b][/quote]

[url="http://www.ncccusa.org/about/cctusa.html"]link[/url]

Edited September 4, 2007 by Budge

[Budge]

[quote]I didn't say "about" other religions. I said do you EVANGELIZE TO THEM. Do you post on their boards, in their forums? Or are we just the lucky ones?[/quote]

When do you evangelize?

After all youre just preaching to the choir here arent you with the exception of the two? three? Bible Christians on this board.

Oh yeah Catholics dont do that.

Even I have a limit in the hours of my day.

I have posted on other forums before.