The Types Of Habits For Various Communities

[Chiquitunga]

[quote][b]Do you think that the type of habit a community wears determines if they are Traditional, Conservative or liberal?[/b][/quote]
Yes, it more than often does - it is one external sign that can determine this. And again, I understand that these are general terms, and can mean a variety of things. But I believe what Marieteresa is generally saying here, without having to describe everything, is:

[b]Traditional[/b] - first of all, ones that are orthodox, ie completely in union with the mind of the Church - and in additional - ones that value and keep certain traditional ascepts of religious life like the full habit, use of Latin (for Roman Catholics) in the Liturgy - whether the Forma Ordinaria or Extraordinaria and Divine Office - for cloistered communities - ones that keep certain traditional customs that protect their life of enclosure, like grills in the parlor, etc.

[b]Conservative[/b] - first again, ones that are completely orthodox & similar to the description above, ones that "conserve" certain traditional ascepts of religious life, etc

[b]Liberal[/b] - ones that are not orthodox/have a liberal interpretation of Catholicism

As Fr. Corapi says, grey is the devil's favorite color. Religious communities that I would consider liberal, would be ones that are grey in certain areas of what the Church teaches.

[quote][b]If a community doesn't wear a habit do you consider them liberal?[/b][/quote]
Yes, in the vast majority of cases (and I do not mean individual sisters, but their communities - as I know several sisters that do not wear habits, that I would consider traditional - one that particularly loves the TLM and taught me a lot about it - who is sad about the current state of her religious community, and feels pressured to not wear the habit)

The present [b]Code of Canon Law[/b] in Chapter IV, [url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P28.HTM"][i]The Obligations and Rights of Institutes and Their Members[/i][/url], requires religious to wear the habit of their particular religious institute/order (Canon 669) - among other things including Eucharistic Adoration, devotion to Our Lady and the Rosary, & the primacy of prayer for all religious (Canon 663)

[quote]Members are to make every effort to participate in the eucharistic sacrifice daily, to receive the most sacred Body of Christ, and to adore the Lord himself present in the sacrament.[/quote]
[quote]"I say: rejoice to be witnesses to Christ in the modern world. Do not hesitate to be recognizable, identifiable in the streets as men and women who have consecrated their lives to God and who have given up everything worldly to follow Christ. Believe that contemporary men and women set value on the visible signs of the consecration of your lives. People need signs and reminders of God in the modern secular city, which has few reminders of God left. So do not help the trend towards 'taking God off the streets' by adapting secular modes of dress and behavior yourselves!" ~Pope John Paul II, 1979[/quote]

There is only one community I know of personally that does not wear a distinctive habit, that I would not consider liberal at all, but rather, they are exceptionally orthodox - [url="http://www.apostlesofil.org/AilIndex.htm"]The Apostles of the Interior Life[/url] - because it is a particular charism of theirs to remain in appearance as lay people (similar to the community CA mentioned above). But this is definitely an exception from the rule, and one [i]which they have approval for[/i].

[quote][b]Is there a connection between communities wearing the full habit and those communities desiring TLM?[/b][/quote]
Yes, there definitely is. All the communities I've heard of that either have the TLM now, or desire it, wear a full habit.

Not to say that those with modified habits are not as good as those with full habits - seriously, not at all. But just in answer to the question - yes, there definitely is a connection, without a doubt, between communities wearing a full habit, and those desiring the TLM.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Chiquitunga]

shortnun is right though, in that we should not attack individual people on a personal level - that is very important. I apologize if I have done so

There is a difference however between judging someone's heart & making a judgement on someone's actions or what they say - if they are in conformity with the teachings of the Church or not.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Chiquitunga]

Just wanted to apologize again here for my critical remarks about a sister.

It's important to defend what the Church teaches, and not be afraid if people might disagree. But to attack people on a personal level, is never good. Thanks for pointing it out.

Edited October 9, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[johnnydigit]

i also found the topic slightly disturbing. i think that a person who is further along in their discernment is most likely to have sensed this from experience, while a newbie may not need to hear this information because it might influence them in a negative way (judging an order by their dress - which is the opposite of one of the very reasons for the habit!).

another misconception might be that those in full habits are more contemplative. we just can't assume. you have to find out the truth for yourself for each particular order. you may be surprised when you find out the reason the founder decided to go with their choice of habit.


anywho i guess for discussion's sake i would typically agree that those wearing traditional habits may be, well, traditional.. while those wearing non-traditional and modern habits may be, well, non-traditional and modern. just please take each one on an individual basis.

[Marieteresa]

wowzer, I can't believe that people are still voting in this poll....cool beans

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1429523' date='Dec 5 2007, 12:39 AM']wowzer, I can't believe that people are still voting in this poll....cool beans[/quote]

Indeed

And I also like the lack of logical connection between the statistics for the three questions

[VeniteAdoremus]

Reading back, I see that I voted but didn't comment "way back when"...

My answers: no, unsure, yes.

Unsure on the middle one because I try not to, but when I see unhabited sisters my first reaction is "liberal". I would like to say "no", but the fact is that I am not free of prejudice.

I think there is a common source in a community's spirituality that can lead to both desiring the TLM and wearing the habit. I don't think we will see many religious sisters in common clothes wanting the TLM as a community.

What I would be interested in as an additional poll question is the other side of #2: if a community wears the habit, do you consider them orthodox?

[InHisLove726]

LOL, I'm the one guilty of voting in this poll. "Johnny-Come-Lately" is my name. I have been reading old posts a lot lately. There is another poll about spirituality that I am guilty of resurfacing...

[TeresaBenedicta]

I'm sure there's the [i]possibility[/i] of there being solid, orthodox [i]orders[/i] (not individual sisters-- I think that's much more likely) that are unhabited. But honestly, I think that's pretty rare. Can anyone think of any? Perhaps something in foreign countries, would be my guess...

Although, I *think* this differs when it comes to men's communities.

But, usually when I see an unhabited sister, my first thought is "liberal." I'm trying to work on it... but it usually ends up being about right.

[VeniteAdoremus]

Well, we have one congregation... unfortunately, there aren't many left of them. They used to have a very peculiar veil, by the way:
[img]http://www.kapel.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/image004-2.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.kapel.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/image047-2.jpg[/img]

I don't think they ever went beyond the Netherlands.

And unfortunately I needed to think for a while before I came up with them

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1948660' date='Aug 14 2009, 07:45 AM']I'm sure there's the [i]possibility[/i] of there being solid, orthodox [i]orders[/i] (not individual sisters-- I think that's much more likely) that are unhabited. But honestly, I think that's pretty rare. Can anyone think of any? Perhaps something in foreign countries, would be my guess...

Although, I *think* this differs when it comes to men's communities.

But, usually when I see an unhabited sister, my first thought is "liberal." I'm trying to work on it... but it usually ends up being about right.[/quote]

About the only ones I have seen are the Benedictine Sisters of Perpetual Adoration, but I don't know very much about them, so I may be wrong.

I think the difference though is that they wear a habit of some sorts. It lists this on their website:
[quote]Do you wear a habit?

Yes. Sisters receive our habit at First Monastic Profession. The habit consists of a black and/or white skirt and blouse or dress of the sister's choosing, along with our Congregational emblem (a Benedictine cross with the symbols of the Eucharist). Sisters receive a ring at Final Monastic Profession.[/quote]

It's not a habit by traditional terms, but it makes them more adherent than most non-habited orders.

Edited August 14, 2009 by InHisLove726

[stlmom]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1948660' date='Aug 14 2009, 07:45 AM']I'm sure there's the [i]possibility[/i] of there being solid, orthodox [i]orders[/i] (not individual sisters-- I think that's much more likely) that are unhabited. But honestly, I think that's pretty rare. Can anyone think of any? Perhaps something in foreign countries, would be my guess...

Although, I *think* this differs when it comes to men's communities.

But, usually when I see an unhabited sister, my first thought is "liberal." I'm trying to work on it... but it usually ends up being about right.[/quote]


Not your traditional habit [url="http://www.sacredheartsisters.com"]HERE[/url], but a solid community, I believe.

[VeniteAdoremus]

And, you know, there are enough habited orders that aren't faithful to the Magisterium. Since I equate true orthodoxy with true fidelity to the Pope, that makes them... er... liberals?

[CatherineM]

Our pastoral associate who passed away last fall was from an order who didn't wear a habit. I was expecting her to be buried in it though, and she wasn't. That really surprised me.

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1949422' date='Aug 15 2009, 02:36 AM']And, you know, there are enough habited orders that aren't faithful to the Magisterium. Since I equate true orthodoxy with true fidelity to the Pope, that makes them... er... liberals? [/quote]

LOL, you mean like schismatic orders, or orders like the ones that promote "social justice"? I think I've run across a few habited orders that promote social justice and women's rights.

Edited August 15, 2009 by InHisLove726