The Types Of Habits For Various Communities

[Marieteresa]

Ruso, Iam some what confused by your response could you please explain where you stand? Thanks for the link to a very beautiful community. They seem very traditional...do they have TLM? Just wanted to say shortnun ..Positive and negative seem like very vague words. I have asked several times already for someone to give me a example of a community of non habited or modified habit sisters who desire TLM or currently have TLM. Thanks

[shortnun]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1376891' date='Sep 3 2007, 10:49 AM']Just wanted to say shortnun ..Positive and negative seem like very vague words. I have asked several times already for someone to give me a example of a community of non habited or modified habit sisters who desire TLM or currently have TLM. Thanks[/quote]
Likewise "conservative" and "liberal" are vague/subjective. "Positive" and "negative" have subjective definitions. I tried to be more clear by expanding my definitions of each. I thought I was constructively adding to the conversation. That's my intent, anyway.

As for the last sentance of your post regarding modified habit sisters who have TLM.... is that question directed toward me specifically or toward the larger PM community?

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1376891' date='Sep 3 2007, 10:49 AM']Ruso, Iam some what confused by your response could you please explain where you stand? Thanks for the link to a very beautiful community. They seem very traditional...do they have TLM? Just wanted to say shortnun ..Positive and negative seem like very vague words. I have asked several times already for someone to give me a example of a community of non habited or modified habit sisters who desire TLM or currently have TLM. Thanks[/quote]


I think you (and I) may be confused because English is not ruso's first language, from what I gather.

[Marieteresa]

No shortnun that question wasn't directed toward you....it was directed to the individuals who voted no to the third question. Anyway, I guess each of us are free to use our own words to describe communities. Whether it be positive, negative, traditional, conservative, and liberal. We all are free to use anywords we like

[ruso]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1376974' date='Sep 3 2007, 08:22 PM']I think you (and I) may be confused because English is not ruso's first language, from what I gather.[/quote]
It's true, i read well in english, but my writing.......
Traditional is for a catholic hispanic is that they follow as always, with habit(modified or no), your works like always, the sisters of the link for sample, its apostolate is equal to litte sisters of the poors, nevertheless they don't change in the habit.
They are the litte sisters of the old abandoned, its web this only in spanish, but is very good

[url="http://www.hermanitas.es/portada.htm"]http://www.hermanitas.es/portada.htm[/url]

Traditionalistic, they are the one who in addition has mass in Latin and sometimes norms pre-VaticanII.

To the request of Mariateresa this in Brazil and Italy

Administração Apostólica Pessoal São João Maria Vianney, in comunnion with Rome.

Nuns: Servas de Maria Auxiliadora

[url="http://www.adapostolica.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=158"]http://www.adapostolica.org/modules/news/a...php?storyid=158[/url]

Nuns and Monks

[url="http://www.adapostolica.org/modules/xcgal/index.php?cat=8"]http://www.adapostolica.org/modules/xcgal/index.php?cat=8[/url]

Priestly ordinations

[url="http://www.adapostolica.org/modules/xcgal/index.php?cat=6"]http://www.adapostolica.org/modules/xcgal/index.php?cat=6[/url]

[Saint Therese]

I think there are some communites that have the abbreviated veil and habit, but are quite orthodox-such as the religous order of Sister Briege Mckenna. However there is a definite corollation between a "liberal" theology and the doing away with the habit. I think it sometimes reflects their views about the nature of women and their relationship to the authority of the Church.

[Veritas]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1377095' date='Sep 3 2007, 04:16 PM']No shortnun that question wasn't directed toward you....it was directed to the individuals who voted no to the third question. Anyway, I guess each of us are free to use our own words to describe communities. Whether it be positive, negative, traditional, conservative, and liberal. We all are free to use anywords we like[/quote]

+

This is a very interesting statement. Because, of course we are all free to use or misuse words as we like, but the question is, "Should we?" Are we helping or hindering understanding? Are we representing truth if we are not careful with our definitions?

The "logic" we use is interesting, isn't it?

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1377095' date='Sep 3 2007, 04:16 PM']No shortnun that question wasn't directed toward you....it was directed to the individuals who voted no to the third question. Anyway, I guess each of us are free to use our own words to describe communities. Whether it be positive, negative, traditional, conservative, and liberal. We all are free to use anywords we like[/quote]

I agree.

[ruso]

To see if we understand what happen after of conciliate the Vatican II, girls.
Many norms have that to change, only by cruel, for example, if you was religious and one of your parents were going to die, can to choose between going to the funeral or going to visit it, never to the two things.
But many congregations took everything very far, this good to help the poor men, for example, but you are religious that apostolate makes no sense outside the Church. Nowadays some congregations follow in this error, It is not a question of habits only. It is a question from fidelity to the Church and its lessons.

Who are not faithful, they disappear.

Cielo y tierra pasaran, mas tus palabras no pasaran.

Sky and earth happened, but your words did not happen.

[ruso]

And several congregations that if they are faithful, also would disappear.
I feel to be hard, but the congregations disappear and the Church continuous, until the time end.
It is our education and our faith.

[HollyDolly]

you are right.It really doesn't matter what habits the sisters wear,or whether they are conservitive or liberal,etc.

new communities are springing up in the Church all the time.Some will make it others not.
And some established communities will,die out. All for various reasons but mainly i guess because they are not attracting new members.
The Sisters of St.Elizabeth in Brookfield,Wisconsin joined with some Franciscan Sisters in Milwaukee.
The Vicentian Sisters of Charity in Bedford,Ohio planned to join with the Vicentian Sisters of Charity of Pittsburgh,Pa.
I can't find any mention of the Daughters of St.Rita of the Immaculate Heart of Mary,the Society of Christ Our king,
Cathecist Missionary Sisters of St.John,Congregation of Consolers of the Sacred Heart of Jesus,and several other communities who used to be around,but may no longer exist.
The Arrosian Canons,Order of Tiron,Order of Grandchamp,Order of Savignay,and several other communities of the past no longer exist.While there has been a revival of the brigettine Monks,no one has tried to revive these orders.
I think the Vallambrosians and the Monte Virgne Order are still around in Italy,but their numbers are smaller that in the past.

[sr_betsy]

[quote]The Vincentian Sisters of Charity in Bedford,Ohio planned to join with the Vicentian Sisters of Charity of Pittsburgh,Pa.[/quote]

The Vincentian Sisters of Charity in Bedford, Ohio merged with the Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati. They branched from the Vincentian Sisters of Charity from Pittsburgh, PA.

BTW....Happy Feast of St. Vincent de Paul

sr betsy

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1394053' date='Sep 27 2007, 08:14 AM'] you are right.It really doesn't matter what habits the sisters wear,or whether they are conservitive or liberal,etc.[/quote]

I have to disagree with this. It definitely does matter if a community is "conservative or liberal, etc." Yes, I understand that these are general terms and can mean a variety of different things to various degrees. But generally speaking, when we use the word "liberal" to describe a community, we mean, one that is not fully in union with the mind of the Church, eg some communities that promote a New Age spirituality and are not centered on the Eucharist, etc.

Generally speaking, when we use the term "conservative," we are speaking of one that is orthodox, completely in union with the mind of the Church. And often in addition, one that keeps certain traditional ascepts of religious life, like a more contemplative focus (like the SMME), etc. As Fr. Corapi has said, one of the greatest heresies in the Church today is "activism." Our works have to be fueled by prayer. Many of what I would call "liberal" communities, have lost this. A sister (that btw, wears lay clothing) at my parish never comes to Eucharistic Adoration when we have it, and does not support it.

A few years back when I was first discerning I went on a discernment retreat where several different congregations were represented. Only one of them I would consider orthodox, the Franciscan Sisters of Christian Charity. From several of the other sisters, I noticed things that were way off, eg one Superior said it doesn't really matter if you believe in the Immaculate Conception or not (really! and she said she did not believe it herself) other things - a general spirit of disobediece, feminism, in favor of women ordinations, etc. These communities I would describe with the term "liberal" and I don't think that is incorrect. They have a liberal interpretation of what it is to be Catholic, which they are not if they do not accept things like the Immaculate Conception! And all these communities I noticed at this retreat did not wear any habit - just the Franciscan Sisters of Christian Charity.

So, yes, it does matter if a community is "conservative or liberal, etc."

[shortnun]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' post='1395677' date='Sep 30 2007, 04:29 PM']A sister (that btw, wears lay clothing) at my parish never comes to Eucharistic Adoration when we have it, and does not support it.[/quote]
I do not think that your portrayal of this sister is fair, just, or necessary in your response to this conversation. Eucharistic Adoration is a [i]personal devotion[/i]. Would you say the same thing about another parishioner if she didn't attend weekly rosary or if he didn't come to Stations of the Cross on Lenten Fridays? Even if this sister has spoken out against Eucharistic Adoration, I doubt that anyone (including yourself) knows the entire story. Thus, I think it's best if she (including her clothes, personal devotions, etc) is kept absent from this conversation.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='shortnun' post='1395686' date='Sep 30 2007, 02:39 PM']I do not think that your portrayal of this sister is fair, just, or necessary in your response to this conversation. Eucharistic Adoration is a [i]personal devotion[/i]. Would you say the same thing about another parishioner if she didn't attend weekly rosary or if he didn't come to Stations of the Cross on Lenten Fridays? Even if this sister has spoken out against Eucharistic Adoration, I doubt that anyone (including yourself) knows the entire story. Thus, I think it's best if she (including her clothes, personal devotions, etc) is kept absent from this conversation.[/quote]

No, I would not speak out against anyone in my parish that does not attend a weekly Rosary or Stations of the Cross service, etc. I am not at all like that, and I totally understand I have no idea about the entire story of anyone's life - only God knows. Seriously, I am not at all like that.

But I was trying to give a general example of what some of the more liberal communities are like. There are a few sisters at my parish that are this way. I mention "a sister" to keep this a general reference, and am not mentioning any congregations or other details.

I understand that Eucharistic Adoration is a personal devotion, but it is something our Cardinal in particular is highly encouraging in the parishes in our diocese. To not support it, and even speak against it, is not in union with the mind of the Church.

Edited September 30, 2007 by Margaret Clare