NewReformation Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Nevermind, I have found my answer: http://www.theonion.com/onion3417/abortion...nic_attack.html JK! :D I know someone here's gonna think that was in bad taste. But seriously what are some answers or places to get answers on this? :sadder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I hold free will above our lives because it is our livlihood. If God didn't want us to have free will, he wouldn't have gave it to us. And since the baby's life is "resonably" in question, we should not impose on her free wil,l one might think. If God didn't want us to have life, he wouldn't give that to us either. God entrusts women with the amesome responsiblilty to carry a new life with a soul implanted by Him, for nine months. Do you think he gave us free will just to kill it? For every freedom there is a corresponding responsibilty. We have free will in getting pregnant. But once you are pregnant you have a responsibility to God to take care of the new life he has shared with you. THe babies life or humanity is not questionable, it is fact. Free will is not the end all and be all of existance. It is not something to be worshipped instead of God. If free will is the most important thing in existance, then no law or order is possible. Life would simply be a clash of free will: my free will to knock you down and hurt you vs your free will to do what you want. The rule of fee will admits NO law above it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_bc Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Or else why don't we enforce all of our morals such as church attendance and contraception on everyone else? If we insist that it isn't understandable they dissent, shouldn't we hold true to that in these other matters as well? The free will God gave us, is the freedom to either choose to follow Him or not. There is a long stretch from that free will, to a carte blanche to do whatever the heck we want to anyone or anything. In fact, that latter distortion of free will is not freedom at all, it is slavery to ones impulses complemented by a good heaping of pride. The crucial difference between church attendance and abortion, is that abortion severely affects other people, specifically the unborn and possibly their immediate family. The duty to defend ones life, means that we must defend ourselves and our families from aggressors, even using force if that is the _only_ way possible - but only the minimum amount of force absolutely neccessary. Just war is much the same concept, as far as I can tell. Obviously, killing abortion doctors is not the minimum amount of force necessary to save the unborn children. If one wanted to avoid having their argument float around, aimlessly from one extreme to the other, it might be useful to try and apply just a modicum of common sense to whatever position one is adopting that day, and see if it holds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_bc Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I sleepy. Last email have muddled phrasing. I blush. I stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Night night BC. Sleep well. :sleep: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty_boy Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 dairygirl has a point. The 10 commandments do say "Thou shalt not kill". However, there are specific times where it is justified to use deadly force, to protect your own life or the life of another. Now, in reference to the pro-life war, killing abortion doctors is not okay because in this case it's more than 1 man standing on a street corner with a gun to a little girls head. That immediate issue is between that man, the little girl, and the other people watching. All witnesses agree that what the man is doing is wrong. In the abortion war, there are a bunch of people who believe or want to believe that abortion is okay. The killing of one doctor by one pro-lifer not only paints all pro-lifers as violent murderers, but also takes away any credibility the pro-life group has and pushes the tension level up one more notch. Evil begets evil. If we kill, they get upset and maybe they'll start killing. Honestly I don't want that. I'm a sidewalk counselor and I'm not gonna get violent, but I don't want it to become more dangerous for the peaceful protestors at the abortions mills. It's very tempting to believe that killing an abortion doctor could be the right thing to do, but it's acting on saving a couple of babies now instead of all in the long run. I DO think it would be very interesting to go back and find the women who were supposed to have abortions at the places on the days that the doctors were killed and see if any of them actually chose life or if they all just went another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 THe end does not justify the means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty_boy Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 That's what I'm saying cmother. It sounds like killing a doctor could be the right ing to do, but then there's the whole fact that abortion is still around after that with a whole lot more anger. Fr. Pavone and Priests for Life has actually set up a reward fund for information leading to the capture of anyone who kills an abortion doctor. I think that's kinda cool in a renegade priest kinda way. Fr. Pavone rocks. He likes to play hardball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Two wrongs don't make a right. Dont' just treat the symptoms, without seeking a cure. Killing abortion Doctors will only encourage pre-abotionists to get Govermental protection for these death "clincs". Protestors against abortion have already been seriously hamperd because of misguided tactics that became abusive. Support politicians that want to change Adoption Laws, give rights to the UnBorn, give rights to both sets of Parents in deciding about Abortion (including the Father), increase the responsibility (legal and financial) of the Father AND Mother, set limits on birth parental rights if they abdicate responsibility (a bio-parent cannot claim rights if a child goes to adoption or relinquishes rights and responsibilities to the other bio-parent). etc., etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 11, 2004 Author Share Posted February 11, 2004 You all make a good point that it would not solve anything. But in principle for pro-lifers isn't killing abortion doctors the right thing to do? Some say the end does not justify the means. But wouldn't the lesser of two evils trump that? Of if you say it doesn't trump it, why can the state who has no other means have a just war? I realize killing the doctors and a just war are not the same, but in principle why can the state justify the end by the means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_bc Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 You all make a good point that it would not solve anything. But in principle for pro-lifers isn't killing abortion doctors the right thing to do? If it would not solve anything, why would it be the right thing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 The end does not justify the means. Two wrongs do not make a right. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 14, 2004 Author Share Posted February 14, 2004 Two wrongs don't make a right. Therefore the Catholic Church is teaching heresy at least unofficially by allowing just wars and self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 The end does not justify the means. Two wrongs do not make a right. Period. True. It is the prerogative of the state to try and execute criminals, not the individual. The only thing vigilante killings do is turn people away from the pro-life movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hananiah Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Two wrongs don't make a right. Therefore the Catholic Church is teaching heresy at least unofficially by allowing just wars and self defense. Dairy Girl, I can certainly see where you're coming from, but you have to realize that killing abortion doctors hurts the pro-life cause. Perhaps if the legal path towards ending abortion were closed it would be permissible to use illegal means, but as it stands we have a good chance of getting another conservative onto the Supreme court bench and getting Roe v. Wade overturned, so I think we should stay in the legal realm for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now