dairygirl4u2c Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I have re-convert to the pro-life movement (the ones personally AND socially against it) since a woman is only truly free (as the Pope himself's argument has shown me) when she realizes the baby inside of her is fully entitled to humanity's natural rights. http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...opic=6891&st=60 I am still open minded. Open minded enough to leave the pro-life movement and open-minded to come back again. (and yes perhaps even so open-minded that my brains have fallen out) but I have more questions. I am wondering why we don't attack abortion doctors? It's been said that that's breaking the 10 commandments, but how is this different than having a just war? And if someone were killing say blacks, wouldn't we be obliged to stop them? Can we say the dispute is understandable enough to allow it to happen because of democratic means but not understandable enough to actively allow it to happen? What's the deal? I wonder if the Pope has spoken on this issue speicifically about abortion doctor killing. I also wonder why we aren't more adament about fighting for the people who have their plugs pulled but maybe that's another post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Life is to be respected at all times. If they are murderers, where do murderers go? Jail. If they have proven a threat to society and have been given the death penalty, then only in rare cases is the death penalty allowed. And Yes, the death penalty is abused. Why do you think WE should kill them? By YOUR logic, If I view them as "not human" isn't that a choice I MADE? But by killing doctors, we'd be doing what we are totally against. Life is to be respected at all times. Are you trying to get us to say, "Yes, kill them!" ? If so, what is your intent? You are the one going in circles, not us. You are not open-minded. You are a gofer. You go for any idea that suits the way you "feel" at any given moment. And feelings come and go and change as the wind. This still doesn't free Catholics from not killing abortion doctors and insisting on no euthanasia. that is WHY I said: TWO WORDS: Ten Commandments. If you couldn't see my point with that, no wonder you can't see the whole point with saving innocent babies from being murdered in the womb or the reason why we don't kill abortionists ourselves. Peace and God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Nevermind, I have found my answer: http://www.theonion.com/onion3417/abortion...nic_attack.html JK! :D I know someone here's gonna think that was in bad taste. But seriously what are some answers or places to get answers on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 If this is a joke to you, then THAT clears up alot. Funny how easily you can pull that up, yet fail to open real website or book that has answers to your questions. Priests for Life Great pictures (America will not reject Abortion until America sees abortion) and great information! Roe Vs. Wade amesome site! Life Dynamics Life Dynamics is great...doing work, reports and studies. This one is a must to go to. Check it out. Virtue Media great ads......download some. National Right to Life Silent Scream.org The true horror of abortion Couple to Couple Leage---Natural Family Planning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 it all comes down to the commandment........ thou shall NOT kill what part do you have not understand dairygirl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 jmjtina, why are you giving me the attitude? You never gave me any answers when I wanted them about abortion. All you did was insist that someone could think Joe Blow is not human and were putting in my mouth that I was okay with that. That's not what I was saying, and the fact that you think that's what I was saying is the reason the pro-life movement is getting nowhere. I was arguing freedom because of the *understandable* uncertainty, and the only reason I came back was by the logic of the Pope who said that the woman is only TRULY free when she realizes the baby is fully human and fully has the rights of humanity. I admit I was illogical with the freedom argument now, why can't you admit your logic isn't logical with my premises? Are you bitter because I am open-minded? The way I see it is either you are bitter because you never could figure out a logical answer to my other question, or you are bitter because you are not open-minded and feel like you have to stand by everything someone tells you simply because they've told you it, and it makes you frustrated when I don't do that. Even if the Catholic Chuch is right, you can still question it until the answer arises! :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 I don't understand how we can say thou shalt not kill and at the same time not say it when we have just wars and can kill in self-defense. (and presumably kill people who kill a group of our society, such as blacks) If we start insisting that it says Thou shalt not kill, I can see this debate isn't gonna get anywhere like the abortion debate, until I find something that talks about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I don't understand how we can say thou shalt not kill and at the same time not say it when we have just wars and can kill in self-defense. (and presumably kill people who kill a group of our society, such as blacks) If we start insisting that it says Thou shalt not kill, I can see this debate isn't gonna get anywhere like the abortion debate, until I find something that talks about it. actually dairygirl its very fustrating when one doesn't listen to the truth but rather goes on with opinions and frankly avoids what is true. im glad your back to the pro-life camp. and i hope this time you stay, and understand why. tina is a very dedicated pro-life person. and for you to go to the pope's writings last, before google, shows alot. the Church should be the first place you look. how you got bitter i do not know. she cares enough to share with you the truth of abortion. i would thank her. remember, we are to conform our ways to the Church's teachings and to the truth. you used many unlogical examples that were obviously flawed and that can be fustrating. yes, we are to question, but we're suppose to question for the truth and look to Jesus himself in the Holy Church today. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I don't understand how we can say thou shalt not kill and at the same time not say it when we have just wars and can kill in self-defense. (and presumably kill people who kill a group of our society, such as blacks) If we start insisting that it says Thou shalt not kill, I can see this debate isn't gonna get anywhere like the abortion debate, until I find something that talks about it. how are we to say don't kill babies and go and murder someone else? we can not do that. life should and needs to be respected at all stages of life from birth to natural death. we have no right to take anothers life. in the thou shall not kill commandment there is self-defense, etc. but when we say hey im gonna kill my baby cuz i can, thats not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 If it comes across as "attitude" then I'm sorry you took it that way. Believe me, if you've never had a debate or a sister, then you must make the statement "your attitude, your bitter blah blah" alot. Because honestly, bitter is something I am not. Not even to the "Pro-Choice" movement itself. Are you bitter because I am open-minded? The way I see it is either you are bitter because you never could figure out a logical answer to my other question, or you are bitter because you are not open-minded and feel like you have to stand by everything someone tells you simply because they've told you it, and it makes you frustrated when I don't do that. Even if the Catholic Chuch is right, you can still question it until the answer arises! If you think I do it because I'm told and don't think for myself that's fine. (Who on Phatmass doesn't think for themselves? ) What I believe, I believe and I won't change my mind because I don't "FEEL" pro-life today or the next day or on anyother day. I believe it because I researched, and looked it up! I went to sites, read books, and prayed in front of the abortion clinic and the blessed sacrament. and your JOEBLOW hypothetical question I never got. Who did? It is not about my view or your view but God's view we must conform our thinking to. It's to easy to do what I want and how I want to do it. True freedom is the truth. Peace and God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 I really am not bitter! Seriously I am not. But it looks like she is. I just want the truth of this debate and the abortion debate to be known. She never answered my questions with the premises I had. She say things like the baby has a heart right after I noted that the baby doesn't always have heart. I had more philosophical underlying questions that no one here gave me an answer to other than I was denying Truth. I tried all the sites they gave me, I tried many other sites too. Google isn't bad, you just gotta know how to use it. That's how I found that one. Also with my questions in mind that no one was answering, no one gave me the site that the Pope has spoken but insisted on their twisted logic based on my premise. Maybe they knew the truth, but they couldn't explain it. And you should actually be praising me for being the first to find that site with that in mind since no one else did! I would like to get back to this debate. Too bad we couldn't be discussing all this back in the other thread. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 Okay, sorry for thinking you are bitter jtina. I thought by how you caps things and stuff that you were. so let's get back to the discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Dairygirl she is not bitter, but your posts can be frustrating. You did point out you tend to ramble. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted February 9, 2004 Author Share Posted February 9, 2004 (edited) I'm not trying to justify abortion in this thread by using this hypothetical question. I've converted. I know it's weird to see someone convert like that beyond their stubborness they may hold. I truly want to know how it is not just to kill abortion doctors. Can we say the dispute is understandable enough to allow it to happen because of democratic means (and we don't kill the abortionists because of this justification) that cause it but not understandable enough to actively allow it to happen by being pro-choice? Edited February 9, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Dairy there is a principle that states "the end does not justify the means" So a person cannot try to end abortion by murdering abortion docters. You cannot committ evil even for a good cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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