Budge: Where In The Bible Are We Told Which Books Go In The Bible.

[Lord Philip]

[quote name='Budge' post='1374783' date='Aug 31 2007, 08:40 AM']The BIble interlocks...ie one book interlocks with another, and they all relate to one another. The best way I can describe it is like a puzzle, it all fits together. One can tell when pieces do not fit. Study the Bible more, you see the patterns and how scripture interprets itself.
In reading books of the Apocyrpha, one can tell they do not fit. I found myself even years ago put off by the book of Judith, it was all wrong. That includes Macabees, Wisdom and more. I noticed this difference even while still CATHOLIC! because I had started intense reading of scripture the year before I left. CErtain books didnt fit in with others.

The Holy Spirit also does play a part in this despite the Catholics denial. I wanted to read the Book of Enoch, for outside research, and while praying about it, I started to read it, and the Holy Spirit stopped me. I actually felt revulsion in reading this book, that same went when I was reading the gospel of St. Thomas...

Catholics act like these books read just like scripture they dont. Gnostic gospels are easy to tell. One even has Jesus throwing a playmate off a roof and turning a clay pigeon into a living bird. For anyone with an ito of spiritual discernment its not as difficult as Catholics make it out to be.

The canon was already determined among Christains far earlier then Catholics believe and Christians trust in this promise:
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John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

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Budge,

In your response you have inadvertently abandoned the doctrine of sola scriptura. Instead of the important doctrine of the canon of Scripture coming from the Bible, it is coming from your private process of reason. Whether people think you are qualified for this or not is a non-issue. Your response goes completely beyond Scripture by appealing to reason. A private individal's reason is not infallible, Budge, and so you are left with a fallible canon of Scripture.

You may say that the books fit all you like. I agree that they fit. But this impression that you or I receive is fallible. Therefore, you are forced to say, when quoting from, say, Matthew, that this "might be the Word of God but that is just my opinion."

So, if I may, I will rephrase the original question for you: [b]CAN YOU PROVIDE FOR US IGNORANT CATHOLICS AN INFALLIBLE BASIS FOR THE NEW TESTAMENT CANON OF SCRIPTURE?[/b] I have asked this to many Protestants and have never received a satisfactory answer.

I have heard the answered you attempted to give (that the books simply "fit"), and I have heard another that I caution you not to default to: we accept the canon simply on faith. This STILL falls short of an infallible judgement, so we are still left with a fallible canon.

So, once again, we need to hear a Protestant basis for the canon of Scripture as an infallible doctrine.

God bless you,

Philip

[tvu_srfan]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' post='1374977' date='Aug 31 2007, 04:31 PM']It seems most people are not satisfied with your answer, and I'm not sure we can tell the Bible interlocks simply by the verses, at times they seem to contradict, unless you have some rigorous list of verses that link the Bible's books together, since a statement about the matter such as your own "One can tell when pieces do not fit. Study the Bible more, you see the patterns and how scripture interprets itself" certainly wouldn't be very convincing to you if someone made any argument and gave that as proof.

If it is not too much of a burden, I ask you again, how do you know which books belong in the Bible beyond a doubt so that I may have the same assurance you have?[/quote]

I'll be honest, I'm pretty bad at explaining things and I don't know much. But as far as the compilation of the Old and New Testament goes, you can read about how the canon came to be [url="http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/graham4.html"]here,[/url] [url="http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/graham2.html"]here,[/url] and [url="http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/graham3.html"]here.[/url]

[stbernardLT]

It is funny that Budge brings up what she calls the "apocrypha". If there is anything that speaks to the authority of the church it is this. This was the Greek version of the Holy Scripture which included those books only written in Greek, the seven excluded from protestant bibles. This was also included in the bible which the jews read for most of the first century. It wasn't until after much persecution on the Jews from the Romans that a groupof orthodox jews called together the Council of Jamnia to discuss the reason for this persecution. They sought to severe any ties with the christians which included using the same language and old testament scripture as them. Hence they took out the Greek books. So the "one" budge is refering to is a bunch of ill informed, non Holy Spirit receiving, Christian bashing, Pharisees. Thank God for the "Jewish Magesterium" inspiring Martin Luther and all other protestant sects.

Also Budge please read a little bit on the different codex's found (I don't have time to go through each), and you will see the proof that the Church is built on Rock and the Truth lies in her tradition and revelation.

Edited September 1, 2007 by stbernardLT

[MichaelFilo]

That certainly is not Budge's answer and I am solely interested in that but I appreciate your own answer.

[Socrates]

The answer's simple. BUDGE is the ultimate authority concerning what is divinely inspired, as BUDGE, not that Romish Church, is the final authority on all things spiritual.

[stbernardLT]

I wonder if Budge has ever read any primary sources outside of the Bible (translated of course). I would love to see some primary text quotes that support this notion of the books of the bible being established before Catholics.

[goldenchild17]

She might be referring to the anti-Christian Jews who developed their own canon in opposition to the LXX used by the apostles.

[homeschoolmom]

bumpity...

[Budge]

[quote]I wonder if Budge has ever read any primary sources outside of the Bible (translated of course). I would love to see some primary text quotes that support this notion of the books of the bible being established before Catholics.[/quote]

What primary sources?

I do check the Hebrew and the Greek as you all know when discussing verses.

[Budge]

[quote]The answer's simple. BUDGE is the ultimate authority concerning what is divinely inspired, as BUDGE, not that Romish Church, is the final authority on all things spiritual.[/quote]

Oh yeah Socrates, [u]I[/u] picked the books of the BIble...yeah right...

Come on, surely you can come up with a better argument then that.

[MichaelFilo]

Budge, I would ask that you disregard any accusations against you and instead focus on showing how you can positively identify which books belong in the Bible. I realize you said that through study of the bible the verses seem to fit together but I was hoping for something more concrete than a promise.

[stbernardLT]

[quote name='Budge' post='1375532' date='Sep 1 2007, 10:49 AM']What primary sources?

I do check the Hebrew and the Greek as you all know when discussing verses.[/quote]

Any historical primary sources from early church fathers or early Roman historians that would support the Protestant bible. Including the bible itself, if you yhink you can.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='stbernardLT' post='1375579' date='Sep 1 2007, 01:23 PM']Any historical primary sources from early church fathers or early Roman historians that would support the Protestant bible. Including the bible itself, if you yhink you can.[/quote]Apparently, she can't.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1375588' date='Sep 1 2007, 12:40 PM']Apparently, she can't.[/quote]
Yeah, there is a thread about Church fathers that we started here and she believes they were "early deceivers". Wow.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1375849' date='Sep 1 2007, 08:24 PM']Yeah, there is a thread about Church fathers that we started here and she believes they were "early deceivers". Wow. [/quote]It's because she is nourished by a gospel of hate.