Budge: Where In The Bible Are We Told Which Books Go In The Bible.

[MichaelFilo]

I have read my bible over, through, and around sometimes but I have yet to find an honest explanation for this, so I'm quite interested in what you have come across.

Where in the bible are we told which books go in the bible. I was reading some of the other books that seemed to claim they were gospels and encyclicals that were running around in the ancient era and I began to ponder how one knows if they were or were not. I have always been giving a satisfactory response, but I am wondering how you decide which books belong where. I'm sure your time with the UU taught you to not simply take something you've been told on faith but to seek further for truth and a more compelling reason then "I was told so."

[Budge]

The BIble interlocks...ie one book interlocks with another, and they all relate to one another. The best way I can describe it is like a puzzle, it all fits together. One can tell when pieces do not fit. Study the Bible more, you see the patterns and how scripture interprets itself.


In reading books of the Apocyrpha, one can tell they do not fit. I found myself even years ago put off by the book of Judith, it was all wrong. That includes Macabees, Wisdom and more. I noticed this difference even while still CATHOLIC! because I had started intense reading of scripture the year before I left. CErtain books didnt fit in with others.

The Holy Spirit also does play a part in this despite the Catholics denial. I wanted to read the Book of Enoch, for outside research, and while praying about it, I started to read it, and the Holy Spirit stopped me. I actually felt revulsion in reading this book, that same went when I was reading the gospel of St. Thomas...

Catholics act like these books read just like scripture they dont. Gnostic gospels are easy to tell. One even has Jesus throwing a playmate off a roof and turning a clay pigeon into a living bird. For anyone with an ito of spiritual discernment its not as difficult as Catholics make it out to be.

The canon was already determined among Christains far earlier then Catholics believe and Christians trust in this promise:
[font="Arial Black"]
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[/font]

[homeschoolmom]

How does Esther fit? God isn't even mentioned in the whole book.

[thessalonian]

[quote]The Holy Spirit also does play a part in this despite the Catholics denial[/quote]

Rhetoric. Stupidity.

We just believe the Holy Spirit guides others besides ourselves, such as councils of men dedicated to God, who got it right. Your answer shows you trust in your own understanding.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Budge' post='1374783' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:40 AM'][color="#FF00FF"][b]One[/b][/color] can tell when pieces do not fit. In reading books of the Apocyrpha, [b][color="#FF00FF"]one[/color] [/b]can tell they do not fit.

[color="#FF00FF"][b]I[/b][/color] wanted to read the Book of Enoch, for outside research, and while praying about it, [color="#FF00FF"][b]I[/b][/color] started to read it, and the Holy Spirit stopped me. [color="#FF00FF"][b]I[/b][/color] actually felt revulsion in reading this book, that same went when [color="#FF00FF"][b]I[/b][/color] was reading the gospel of St. Thomas...[/quote]

The question posed to you was, "Where in the bible are we told which books go in the bible?"

Instead of answering, all you did was tell us that we can figure out the books by listening to some guy named "One", and of course, listening to you. I've highlighted your above quote with who you think we should trust with our eternal salvation.

[quote]The canon was already determined among Christains far earlier then Catholics believe[/quote]
Wow. Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' post='1374783' date='Aug 31 2007, 10:40 AM']In reading books of the Apocyrpha, one can tell they do not fit. I found myself even years ago put off by the book of Judith, it was all wrong. That includes Macabees, Wisdom and more. I noticed this difference even while still CATHOLIC! because I had started intense reading of scripture the year before I left. CErtain books didnt fit in with others.[/quote]

Budge,

I'm sure we could play the "fling Bible verses back and forth" game all day to show that we find contradictions and "non-fits" in the KJV as well, so I'm not convinced by that argument. [i]Who[/i] decides what is or isn't a good fit? [i]Who[/i] decides when there are two different conclusions and both sides say theirs is inspired by the Holy Spirit?

[dUSt]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1374813' date='Aug 31 2007, 11:08 AM'][i]Who[/i] decides what is or isn't a good fit? [i]Who[/i] decides when there are two different conclusions and both sides say theirs is inspired by the Holy Spirit?[/quote]
See my above highlights of Budge's reply. Apparently, some guy named "One" along with Budge herself determine the canon.

[Matt1618]

Budge, how can, as you say a book like Wisdom is not inspired when contain one of the most explicit prophecies about Christ's death.

Wisdom 2:13-22- 2:13. "He boasteth that he hath the knowledge of God, and calleth himself the son of God. 2:14. He is become a censurer of our thoughts. 2:15. He is grievous unto us, even to behold: for his life is not like other men's, and his ways are very different. 2:16. We are esteemed by him as triflers, and he abstaineth from our ways as from filthiness, and he preferreth the latter end of the just, and glorieth that he hath God for his father. 2:17. Let us see then if his words be true, and let us prove what shall happen to him, and we shall know what his end shall be. 2:18. For if he be the true son of God, he will defend him, and will deliver him from the hands of his enemies. 2:19. Let us examine him by outrages and tortures, that we may know his meekness, and try his patience. 2:20. Let us condemn him to a most shameful death: for there shall be respect had unto him by his words. 2:21. These things they thought, and were deceived: for their own malice blinded them."

The 7 books of the so-called apocrypha, were accepted in the Church for over 1500 years, until Luther threw them out due to references to purgatory. The early Christians all accepted these books as Sacred Scripture, I quote Second Council of Carthage 419 A.D.

Canon 24. (Greek xxvii.)
That nothing be read in church besides the Canonical Scripture

Item, that besides the Canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture.

But the Canonical Scriptures are as follows:

Genesis.
Exodus.
Leviticus.
Numbers.
Deuteronomy.
Joshua the Son of Nun.
The Judges.
Ruth.
The Kings, iv. books.
The Chronicles, ij. books.
Job.
The Psalter.
The Five books of Solomon.
The Twelve Books of the Prophets.
Isaiah.
Jeremiah.
Ezechiel.
Daniel.
Tobit.
Judith.
Esther.
Ezra, ij. books.
Macchabees, ij. books.
The New Testament.
The Gospels, iv. books.
The Acts of the Apostles, j. book.
The Epistles of Paul, xiv.
The Epistles of Peter, the Apostle, ij.
The Epistles of John the Apostle, iij.
The Epistles of James the Apostle, j.
The Epistle of Jude the Apostle, j.
The Revelation of John, j. book.

Let this be sent to our brother and fellow bishop, Boniface, and to the other bishops of those parts, that they may confirm this canon, for these are the things which we have received from our fathers to be read in church."


It would take a tremendous amount of pride for one man to throw out 7 sacred books on his own accord.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1374814' date='Aug 31 2007, 11:11 AM']Apparently, some guy named "One"[/quote]

You mean "The Highlander"?


(In the end, there can only be one..)

[Starets]

That doesn't really answer the question asked. ISTM that the question asked was which Bible verse lists the Table of Contents. MichaelFilo, wold that be accurate?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1374795' date='Aug 31 2007, 03:49 PM']How does Esther fit? God isn't even mentioned in the whole book.[/quote]

At least, no mention of God in the Protestant version of Esther. There is in the version found in the Septuagint, which is of course the one we use.

[Laudate_Dominum]

If the King James Bible was good enough for Jesus its good enough for me. Amen.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i second Dust's posts here. Notice she didn't even respond to the thread.
and prop's for the "one" joke.

she could have at least said the holy spirit was acting in the church at the time of the bible formation. then it stopped so it's not the CC. just enough to get the bible. she has faith in the spirit to form the scripture. and if the scripture is what it is almost notoriously claimed to be, surely the spirit has guided it to this point.

and i guess her comments about the apocrapha would be here. since there are two bibles, which one should we trust? she claims it's self evident. plus maybe she trusts the dude/council that later decided to keep the apocrpha out? i bet she doens't even know who this person (s) is who has had such a monumental affect on her and christianity.

Edited August 31, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[MichaelFilo]

It seems most people are not satisfied with your answer, and I'm not sure we can tell the Bible interlocks simply by the verses, at times they seem to contradict, unless you have some rigorous list of verses that link the Bible's books together, since a statement about the matter such as your own "One can tell when pieces do not fit. Study the Bible more, you see the patterns and how scripture interprets itself" certainly wouldn't be very convincing to you if someone made any argument and gave that as proof.

If it is not too much of a burden, I ask you again, how do you know which books belong in the Bible beyond a doubt so that I may have the same assurance you have?

Edited August 31, 2007 by MichaelFilo

[Winchester]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1374812' date='Aug 31 2007, 11:08 AM']The question posed to you was, "Where in the bible are we told which books go in the bible?"

Instead of answering, all you did was tell us that we can figure out the books by listening to some guy named "One", and of course, listening to you. I've highlighted your above quote with who you think we should trust with our eternal salvation.
Wow. Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?[/quote]
Someone's feeling pithy, today.