The Proliferation Of Denominations And Eating Habits Of Americans

[HS_Dad]

I had tons of meat and potatoes as an Evangelical. As a matter of fact I heard scores of sermons on the topic of sacrifice. I feel so sad for former Evangelicals who can only speak ill of their past.

Sometimes I think the issue is more suburbanization than anything. It seems like suburban parishes and suburban Evangelical churches both seem to be impacted by the consumer culture more than small to medium size towns and urban centers. But a godly man in either communion can make all the difference.

When I was in bible quizzing as an Evangelical, I reflected a lot on this passage in I Corinthians 3:

18Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"[a]; 20and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."[b] 21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[c] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

I think it is only too human for us to celebrate our wisdom. Whether Catholic or Evangelical, we may need to "become a 'fool' so that [we] may become wise".


Ut Unum Sint!

[XIX]

While we are on the junk food motif, Huagen-Hass = Haggen Daaz.

Yes. You heard me. Haggen Daaz music. Only the ice cream actually tastes good. The music is boring AND fattening!

Let's fast. That'll be good for us. hahaha



Okay I'm done now. For cereal. I'm done.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1372187' date='Aug 28 2007, 12:43 AM']Let's just note that this same addiction is affecting Catholicism now, when people choose parishes because they "feel good."

But great analogy.[/quote]
Yes, good analogy.

I've only been a youth minister for a few months and it is interesting to see the divide. This is a very heavily Baptist area. The parents are split: some want an authentically Catholic catechesis for their youth, the others say, "well, but why are you teaching them all this stuff? Why can't you just have fun in youth group like all the other churches in town?"

One of the Baptist churches here owns a mall. I'm not kidding...it's an old mall they bought out...they use the storefronts for different ministries and stuff, they use the movie theater, everything. How can we as Catholics compete with that? We don't have as big a budget. That's what I started telling parents when I came down: "we can't play the game by their rules. We have to play the game by our rules. They may be attracted to the high glycemic index of other youth groups, but we can give them meat and potatoes."

It's like Jesus said...whoever comes to Him will never thirst again. Too many of these non-Catholic churches use fluffy, feel-good stuff to keep them coming out of thirst. We want to satisfy their thirst and keep them coming because they want to love God.

So the answer is this: we give them the authentic faith. We pray that, over time, they realize that it is far more satisfying. It's an uphill battle, but hey, so is any diet.

God bless,

Micah

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='fides quarens intellectum' post='1372391' date='Aug 28 2007, 11:18 AM']this reminds me of one Righteous B's lyrics - "Even God tastes better with artificial sweetener." i think you guys are onto something.[/quote]

nice. Yeah I totally thought this had to do with something else related to actual eating habits and one's faith... I was reading something about this the other day. Thought it would be pretty trippy if the same topic came up here.

[Dismas]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1371876' date='Aug 27 2007, 06:11 PM']The problem with converting protestants to Catholicism is that they are being fed in the same way americans are being fed physical food. Junk food tastes good and it is addictive. Sugar and fats make things taste good but health is not a big concern. Some of it is even partially good for you. Meat and potatoes don't sound as good as cake and ice cream.[/quote]

It's also quick, easily available, takes almost no effort to prepare.

[thessalonian]

HS_Dad, your point is well taken. There is some "meat" in protestant denominations. Though the more I study my Catholic faith, the more I see it as a small part of the non-catholic diet. I've been putting on an 8 week DVD series of Theology of the Body. While there are good lessons on this topic in Protestantism, nothing comes close to JP II's writings on the matter. I was thinking this morning about our theology on saints and angels. Man has this desire to communicate and it has led him to communicate from one end of the earth to the other. Yet somehow we think that those in heaven have less capability than us to know what is going on on this earth. To know what is going on here. They someone can't "hear" us.

We are told that Mary is omnipotent because of all the prayers she hears simultaneously. Yet this is a finite problem, to hear all the prayers of all mankind. Furthermore we have solved the problem in a sense. We have computers that could process all the words of all the people in the world. But heaven has a lesser capability evidently. Do you get my drift?

[HS_Dad]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1378036' date='Sep 4 2007, 05:39 PM']There is some "meat" in protestant denominations.

.....

We have computers that could process all the words of all the people in the world. But heaven has a lesser capability evidently. Do you get my drift?[/quote]


There's tremendous meat in the God breathed Word of God. As many Protestants, Orthodox, and Catholics have pondered the Word deeply and prayerfully, there is much meat to be found from many Christians....

... I think I get your drift.

[Sojourner]

Perhaps a different analogy would be a better fit, hsdad?

I just watched Ratatouille (with your wife) a few weeks ago and so have kitchens and fine restaurants on the brain.

The Protestant realm of Christianity is like a fine restaurant kitchen lacking a head chef. There are many talented sous chefs, but they lack direction and organization, so the kitchen becomes a mess. They have all the tools they need to make a world-class dinner ... great kitchen appliances and gadgets, the finest ingredients, and so on, but no direction -- no oversight to coordinate their efforts and create a beautiful meal. Without that direction, the soup doesn't work in concert with the entree; and you occasionally get a batch of dirt pudding instead of creme brulee. Also, there is no one to call the exterminator, so it is an environment ripe for rodent problems ...

[HS_Dad]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1378385' date='Sep 5 2007, 12:36 AM']The Protestant realm of Christianity is like a fine restaurant kitchen lacking a head chef. There are many talented sous chefs, but they lack direction and organization, so the kitchen becomes a mess. They have all the tools they need to make a world-class dinner ... great kitchen appliances and gadgets, the finest ingredients, and so on, but no direction -- no oversight to coordinate their efforts and create a beautiful meal. Without that direction, the soup doesn't work in concert with the entree; and you occasionally get a batch of dirt pudding instead of creme brulee. Also, there is no one to call the exterminator, so it is an environment ripe for rodent problems ...[/quote]

Hmmm.... Some points well taken and very poetically written. But, the analogy is overwrought in my mind. I have thought about it like this for quite awhile...... The following is all well and good but not good enogh.... too many priests wish to be good shepherds of their small flocks.... and too many bishops shepherds of their larger flocks.... But, sometimes what is needed is more..... for shepherds to train sheep dogs who can help move the whole flock to higher pastures where the grass is greener! I am quite thankful for John Paul II and his witness to the importance of evangelization by all Christians.

APOSTOLICAM ACTUOSITATEM
"the Council earnestly exhorts the laity to take a more active part, each according to his talents and knowledge and in fidelity to the mind of the Church, in the explanation and defense of Christian principles and in the correct application of them to the problems of our times. "

As an Evangelical it was self-evident that all are called to use their gifts Romans 12:3-8 3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. 4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his[b]faith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

Many Catholics have a false priest - lay dichotomy that ignores the gifts of the teachings of Sacred Scriipture and APOSTOLICAM ACTUOSITATEM on these matters.

Sorry this didn't go with the meal preparation theme.

[LouisvilleFan]

I also got a lot of "meat and potatoes" in the sermons and teachings at my Baptist church, so this isn't an analogy that I relate to personally. In fact, if you tossed the connection between Catholicism and Protestantism, most of my Baptist friends would agree with it. The connection is more with American suburbanism, which permeates all of Christianity. Culturally speaking, American Catholicism isn't so different from Protestantism. If anything, considering the state of our parishes, schools, and univerisities, Catholics are more caught up in it than Protestants.

Edited September 5, 2007 by LouisvilleFan

[thessalonian]

I am not saying there is no meat in other religions and it is all junk food. But the Catholic diet is far better for the soul I think is my point. The soul food is mixed with things that are not healthy. Error cannot be without consequence. And there are things missing in their diet, i.e. the Eucharist. This does not mean they cannot gleen some truth from the scriptures that is meat. I don't know that I ever said that.

Edited September 5, 2007 by thessalonian

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1378036' date='Sep 4 2007, 05:39 PM']HS_Dad, your point is well taken. There is some "meat" in protestant denominations. Though the more I study my Catholic faith, the more I see it as a small part of the non-catholic diet. I've been putting on an 8 week DVD series of Theology of the Body. While there are good lessons on this topic in Protestantism, nothing comes close to JP II's writings on the matter. I was thinking this morning about our theology on saints and angels. Man has this desire to communicate and it has led him to communicate from one end of the earth to the other. Yet somehow we think that those in heaven have less capability than us to know what is going on on this earth. To know what is going on here. They someone can't "hear" us.

We are told that Mary is omnipotent because of all the prayers she hears simultaneously. Yet this is a finite problem, to hear all the prayers of all mankind. Furthermore we have solved the problem in a sense. We have computers that could process all the words of all the people in the world. But heaven has a lesser capability evidently. Do you get my drift?[/quote]
Good analogy about intercessions. I'll have to borrow that if you don't mind.

[thessalonian]

by all means. Pass it along.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='HS_Dad' post='1378376' date='Sep 5 2007, 12:27 AM']There's tremendous meat in the God breathed Word of God. As many Protestants, Orthodox, and Catholics have pondered the Word deeply and prayerfully, there is much meat to be found from many Christians....

... I think I get your drift.[/quote]

HS_Dad, have you ever read "Meaning of Tradition" by Yves Congar?

He argues two different points. The first is that the entire saving gospel is contained in both scripture and in tradition, rather than the concept that the saving gospel was only partially contained in the scriptures, which needed completing, even at their very source, by oral apostolic traditions, and that certain truths necessary for salvation were not contained in the scriptures.

The reason I mention this is in a soteriological situation it is impossible to have a "saving" christian faith outside of the full teaching of the church if you buy into option 2. But in using option 1 it is possible from scripture to find the seed to the saving gospel. The entire saving gospel is contained, even if it is a seed and needs help to be understood, within the written gospel. Thus, it is possible for a protestant with scripture to come to a saving grace. Although this is not as "easy"(whatever term I use will be wrong..maybe "available" or "accessable") as when you have the living tradition of the church working with the scriptures.

The protestant tradition I came from had a respect for patristics. I have had 2 mentors in my life and the first did not respect patristics or the need for it. Rather he said negative things about what he saw as the greek influence on early theology. The second mentor is considered one of the protestant experts in patristics and opened my mind to the faith the extends from the fathers and the importance of their testimony on our theology. (although from this I ended up growing into catholicism..but that is a different story)

After my babble the point I want to make is that it is possible to find the meat in protestantism, if the individual is able and wanting to look and find the meat. But I would not say that meat is as "meaty" (words are killin me today) as that meat would be if they had the fullness of the meat. Any theological concept we have, understanding that theology is not a "thing" but the development of a relationship with the divine. Is enhanced as we come to a greater understanding. The seed is found in scripture, and any theology must always be rooted in Scripture and attested to in Scripture (at least implicitly but nonetheless clearly) but that flower grows and is developed as the living church grows and develops.

The problem I see is that an individual protestant is able to do this, but the majority of protestant churches will have bits of the meat, but they fill things with alot of ice cream. There are multiple theories as to why this is. 1.) they only have so much meat and they need a filler. This is possible, but I dont think it is the case. If meat was their focus a protestant church would have meat, Some of the meat might be bad meat, but it could remain meat.(the tradition of the church is best understood as keeping our meat good, but we still want to have the meat) The issue I see as likely (2) is that protestant churches are small businesses that compete with other small businesses for customer flow. The average customer could care less about meat, and sometimes meat hurts the tummy so often times the small business that has the ice cream is the one that draws in the customer. In my admin of Christian education class my senior year I made my thesis on the fact that most "seekers" and in response the focus of many of the churches is on their day care and bathrooms rather than the message and growth of the individual churches.

So much of the meat/ice cream is based on the focus of the modern church, rather than an intrinic evil within protestantism. Like I cited. Protestantism can still find meat, although often times the meat goes bad. And catholicism can have ice cream. The issue of the food choice is on what the focus of the church is and what the individual is hungry for. If the church is only feeding ice cream the individual will only eat ice cream.


/rant

[thessalonian]

Good post rev. Hot dogs are meat and they will keep you alive but they aren't that good for you.

Analogies all fail at some point but I still see this as a good one.

Edited September 6, 2007 by thessalonian