Why Is Doubt Considered A Good Thing In The Catholic Church

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372333' date='Aug 28 2007, 10:20 AM']Did you even read the article?, this went on for over 40 years.
I dont think her works were all that wonderful to be frank with you. A few people got a bowl of gruel, but even with the millions of dollars she left sick people sick and helpless a few inches from the floor on those horrible blue mats {the worse place to put an ill person is that close to the floor where they cant even get up at all on their own}, denied them modern medical care, pain killers and more. So while these poor people were given no medical care that really could have SAVED them {India DOES HAVE MODERN HOSPITALS} Mother Teresa made sure to jet-set to the modern hospital when she got sick.[/quote]

Yes, I read the article, and it clearly stated that the doubting of the existence of God happened "at one point", not a 40-year period.

And as far as the type of medical care the people received, it was in Calcutta, not the tech triangle that American jobs are being outsourced to. The treatment they received was probably a step up from what they were getting at the time, if you are being fed the right information in the first place.

If you really think she was pocketing the millions, then forward your concerns to the people investigating her cause for canonization so they can do a financial audit.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372344' date='Aug 28 2007, 11:41 AM']Ive helped people get medical care before.{setting them up for medication, and leading friend to free clinic she didnt know about and more}

I wouldnt put them on a cot on the floor and feed them gruel. So Ive already outdistanced Mother Teresa.[/quote]And the devil promised Our Lord food in the desert, yet He replied, "Man does not live on bread alone." This is really the quintessential Budge, viewing the world just as the father of lies views it.

As it is written, [i]"as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you."[/i] (Matt 7:2)

Budge displays such enmity against the Christian ideal...much like the atheist whom she is parroting, Christopher Hitchens ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Missionary_Position_%28book%29"]link[/url]). But, Our Lord said that we would be hated because of our fidelity to His Gospel. ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john15.htm#v18"]John 15:18-20[/url])

I'm just glad we have Phatmass to shine the light of Truth on the ignorance of anti-Christians such as Budge.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372344' date='Aug 28 2007, 04:41 PM']Ive helped people get medical care before.{setting them up for medication, and leading friend to free clinic she didnt know about and more}

I wouldnt put them on a cot on the floor and feed them gruel. So Ive already outdistanced Mother Teresa.[/quote]

As I've already pointed out, you claim to have qualifications in many areas when you try to argue against Catholicism as a faith or Catholics as people. When talking about the Vatican's supposedly 'pagan art', for example, you wrote, "I am schooled in art." It seems as though you have professional experience behind you in every area. I smell fish.

Even if you were a fully trained and practising doctor, that wouldn't allow you to outdistance Mother Teresa. You live in America, one of the richest nations in the world. Mother Teresa worked in Calcutta, which is notoriously poor and whose citizens are reviled in many strata of Indian society, and where sick people die in the streets and are gnawed on by rats as they die. Have you ever found such a person and carried them to the nearest hospital on your back, as Mother Teresa did? Or did you drive your friend to the free clinic in the comfort of your car?

As for those 'cots on the floor', they're called charpoys. Mother Teresa and her sisters in India either used charpoys or slept on the floor themselves. This is not just out of poverty, but out of an old custom that still prevails in parts of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. When I was little I often used to go to stay the night with two Pakistani friends. They were comfortably off and they had Western-style beds in their home, but those beds were rarely used. On many nights they would spread a blanket on the floor and sleep like that. I've seen the same thing done in Saudi and Jordanian households as well, and sometimes I did it myself. I still do, come to that. So even if proper hospital beds were easy to acquire in the poorest slums of Calcutta, they would have been seen as a novelty, not as items essential to medical care. Let's face it - if you can afford to outfit the hospital wards with Western beds OR to equip an operating theatre with proper instruments and a qualified surgeon, which would you choose? Where would you put your money?

[quote]Look INDIA has MODERN MEDICAL CARE. {I worked for a family from INdia for a short time in my 20s}[/quote]

Medical care that costs a fortune. Can the slum-dwellers of Calcutta pay for it, I wonder?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1372415' date='Aug 28 2007, 07:01 PM']Budge displays such enmity against the Christian ideal...much like the atheist whom she is parroting, Christopher Hitchens ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Missionary_Position_%28book%29"]link[/url]). But, Our Lord said that we would be hated because of our fidelity to His Gospel. ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john15.htm#v18"]John 15:18-20[/url])[/quote]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend...

[MilesChristi]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372344' date='Aug 28 2007, 09:41 AM']So Ive already outdistanced Mother Teresa.[/quote]

[jeffpugh]

There goes that poor woman again... ignoring half the posts and attacking the Church. I think the other PMers have said enough about this. I'm sick of the outright hatred of Budge.

[N/A Gone]

budge..why didnt I get quoted?

[Budge]

My employers from India, made it clear to me that Mother Teresa lied about India. Yes India has its poor, but they do have hospitals there and for the poor, they have Christian clinics and MORE, the REAL KIND, that offer LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE. I have posted links to those places on my board. A poster at my board, has talked about a missionary friend in INdia who says the Assembly of God clinic which is close to the one in Calcutta is where people to if they want to live, they go to Mother Teresas if they want to die.

[quote]So even if proper hospital beds were easy to acquire in the poorest slums of Calcutta, they would have been seen as a novelty, not as items essential to medical care. Let's face it - if you can afford to outfit the hospital wards with Western beds OR to equip an operating theatre with proper instruments and a qualified surgeon, which would you choose? Where would you put your money?[/quote]

The fact of the matter is she provided no modern medical care for these folks WHEN SHE COULD HAVE AFFORDED IT--the lack of beds is a side issue, but this included pain killers.

[url="http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/"]WHERE ARE MOTHER TERESA'S MILLIONS[/url]


[quote]The English doctor Jack Preger once worked in the home for the dying. He says, "If one wants to give love, understanding and care, one uses sterile needles. This is probably the richest order in the world. [font="Arial Black"]Many of the dying there do not have to be dying in a strictly medical sense." The British newspaper Guardian described the hospice as an "organised form of neglectful assistance"[/font].[/quote]

READ THIS BOOK TOO, EXCERPTS ON LINE<
[url="http://meteorbooks.com/"]http://meteorbooks.com/[/url]


This is what makes me positively sick about Mother Teresa. She had the money to help give those people REAL MEDICAL CARE, that would have saved many of their lives, she DIDNT.

That isnt any saint in my book.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Budge

[Guest riknunez]

Budge,
Why do you HATE this kind woman so much. Let me answer that, because she was Catholic. Your brand of "Christianity" teaches you to hate all other denominations especially Catholics.
Do you say that she never knew God? Obviously you say this becasue of your interpretation of the Bible. Did you already take the course offered at your church to hate all things Catholic? That the Pope is the antichrist, that we are idol worshipers, that our works not our faith will save us? You are basking in deep ignorance. Doesnt your denomination teach you to love thy neighbor? Your words are hateful. How does your life compare with hers? How many people have you helped? I will pray for you....So should everyone here.....

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372590' date='Aug 28 2007, 11:02 PM']My employers from India, made it clear to me that Mother Teresa lied about India. Yes India has its poor, but they do have hospitals there and for the poor, they have Christian clinics and MORE, the REAL KIND, that offer LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE. I have posted links to those places on my board. A poster at my board, has talked about a missionary friend in INdia who says the Assembly of God clinic which is close to the one in Calcutta is where people to if they want to live, they go to Mother Teresas if they want to die.
The fact of the matter is she provided no modern medical care for these folks WHEN SHE COULD HAVE AFFORDED IT--the lack of beds is a side issue, but this included pain killers.

[url="http://members.lycos.co.uk/bajuu/"]WHERE ARE MOTHER TERESA'S MILLIONS[/url]
READ THIS BOOK TOO, EXCERPTS ON LINE<
[url="http://meteorbooks.com/"]http://meteorbooks.com/[/url]
This is what makes me positively sick about Mother Teresa. She had the money to help give those people REAL MEDICAL CARE, that would have saved many of their lives, she DIDNT.

That isnt any saint in my book.[/quote]

Budge, have you seen any footage of Mother Teresa's funeral? People lined the streets in floods of tears when she died. And these were ordinary, common people. The Indian government offered her citizenship and a state funeral, which is not something any government will do unless the person involved performed real services to the country.

[quote]Yes India has its poor, but they do have hospitals there and for the poor, they have Christian clinics and MORE, the REAL KIND, that offer LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE.[/quote]

And as I have pointed out, decent medical care in India is [i]not free[/i]. A good hospital is out of the question for the poorest and the sickest - a fact that is attested to by India's low life expectancy and high infant mortality rate. If there really was such a proliferation of 'LIFE SAVING MEDICAL CARE', as you scream in capitals, that wouldn't be the case. India is a Third World country with underdeveloped and poorly utilised resources. Fact.

As for the Assembly of God clinic beating Mother Teresa's hospital, I've come across that rumour before on the Internet. It was propagated and spread by a single journalist who also happens to be an atheist, and who was interviewed by the Vatican as part of Mother Teresa's canonisation process. You're just putting a cyber-rumour into the mouth of your employers. There's no proof of that claim at all - and the crowds that lined the streets at Mother Teresa's funeral attest to the contrary.

Mother Teresa did not hold a single penny to her name, being bound by a vow of poverty. The people who try to present her as a scheming, money-orientated opportunist ignore the fact that she slept on the floor and ate the food of the common people. They also forget that she was living and working as a nun for [i]decades[/i] before the journalist Malcolm Muggeridge discovered the good work she was doing and chose to publicise it for the BBC. A woman who was really after money would have sought out publicity on her own account long before that. Mother Teresa never did.

[Budge]

If I had the millions of dollars Mother Teresa had from WORLDWIDE DONATIONS I would have given these folks actual help instead of putting them on the floor and denying them medical care. These people in most of the cases WERE NOT TERMINALLY ILL with CANCER or anything like that. MODERN MEDICAL CARE would have saved many of their lives. She had the money, especially towards the latter 20 years, and didnt do that.

Of course I would get the surgeons and proper tools over special beds....that is a silly question.
[quote]One was written by Susan Shields, a former Missionaries of Charity sister who worked with Teresa. [b]Shields revealed that part of her job was to help keep track of the millions of dollars donated to Teresa's "charity" work. Unfortunately, most of that money sat unused in various bank accounts while the sisters had to beg for food from local merchants. If the locals couldn't help out, the soup kitchens did without. This is "charity?"[/b]

The other article was written by me. I compared the late Carl Sagan's genuine, almost immeasurable contributions to humanity with Teresa's contributions. [font="Arial Black"]Hers consisted of little more than telling people that suffering was good for them, and prattling on inanely about how God will provide, as starving children dropped like flies all around her. I also pointed to the brazen hypocrisy of Teresa's denying her "patients" the most rudimentary care, including simple comforts and pain killers, while she herself checked into posh hospitals to have a pacemaker implanted and blood vessels cleared. Her own health and comfort were apparently quite important to her. [/font][/quote]

[url="http://www.holysmoke.org/hs02/teresa1.htm"]LINK[/url]


[quote]Leaving her position as the principal of a famous high school that catered to students from wealthy families, Mother Teresa chose to live among the dregs of society and devoted herself to serving the poorest of the poor. That fact is commendable. She says, "I slept where I happened to be, on the ground, often in hovels infected by rats. I ate what the people I was serving ate....I had chosen that lifestyle in order to literally live out the Gospel....I gave my life completely to God...." (Renzo Allegri, "Mother Teresa: The Early Years," New Covenant, August 1996, p 8).
[font="Arial Black"]
There have been numerous reports by former workers in her clinics as well as by visiting medical doctors that the patients are not given proper medication and that the beds and furnishings and general conditions more closely resemble an extermination camp than a hospital or clinic. The reports, coming as they do from a variety of independent observers, seem beyond dispute. [/font]As one example, [u]Mary London, a volunteer in Calcutta, wrote concerning Mother Teresa's Home for the Dying,[/u]

[font="Arial Black"] My initial impression was of all the photographs and footage I've ever seen of Belsen [Nazi death camp] and places like that, because all the patients had shaved heads.[/font] No chairs anywhere, there were just these stretcher beds. They're like First World War stretcher beds. There's no garden, no yard even. No nothing. And I thought what is this? This is two rooms with fifty to sixty men in one, fifty to sixty women in another. They're dying. They're not being given a great deal of medical care. They're not being given painkillers really beyond aspirin...for the sort of pain that goes with terminal cancer....(Christopher Hitchens, The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice; Verso, London, NewYork, 1995, pp 39-40)

We are not indicting Mother Teresa with lack of compassion or with cruelty toward her patients. The problem is her Roman Catholic belief that personal suffering helps to earn one's salvation. Many Catholic priests and nuns, to this day, wear hair undergarments, put stones in their shoes, flagellate themselves and otherwise try to merit heaven by suffering. Poverty and suffering are not simply endured but are sought and even created. Consider this example:
[b]
[G]iven use of a three-storey convent with many large rooms...the sisters ...removed the benches...pulled up all the carpeting in the rooms and hallways. They pushed thick matresses out the windows and removed all the sofas, chairs and curtains....People from the neighborhood stood on the sidewalk and watched in amazement.

The beautifully constructed house was made to conform to a way of life intended to help the sisters become holy. Large sitting rooms were turned into dormitories where beds were crowded together....The heat remained off all winter in this exceedingly damp house. Several sisters got TB during the time I lived there. (Hitchens, p 45)
[u]
The heat was not left off for lack of funds. Mother Teresa has bank accounts with tens of millions of dollars on deposit, so she could afford proper heat, furnishings and food and certainly all the medical attention ever needed. Yet she does without all of these "luxuries," enforces the same rule upon her "Sisters of Charity," and deprives her patients of them as well. No doubt, just as she hopes to earn her way to heaven through her own deprivation and suffering, so Mother Teresa hopes to help her patients as well to reach heaven through the suffenng she imposes upon them.[/u][/b] The morgue in Calcutta has this inscription on a wall: "I am leaving for heaven today."[/quote]

Reading about that makes me sick.

Some of you need to realize the truly HOLY and SAINTLY, do not become WORLD CELEBRITIES. They are doing their work behind the scenes, unnoticed and unrewarded {in this world}

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Budge' post='1372604' date='Aug 28 2007, 06:23 PM']Some of you need to realize the truly HOLY and SAINTLY, do not become WORLD CELEBRITIES. They are doing their work behind the scenes, unnoticed and unrewarded {in this world}[/quote]How does that work out with Scripture where Jesus was bathed with expensive oil? Why do all our your posts distinctly lack humility because you always spout 'your opinion' and what 'Budge' does? Does this mean King David and King Solomon were fundamentally evil men because of their wealth and public acclaim? You confuse me.

[Mateo el Feo]

With her identification with atheists and anti-Christians, Budge is starting to sound less like a Fundamentalist Baptist and more like a Landover Baptist.

[Budge]

[quote][b]As for the Assembly of God clinic beating Mother Teresa's hospital, I've come across that rumour before on the Internet. It was propagated and spread by a single journalist who also happens to be an atheist, and who was interviewed by the Vatican as part of Mother Teresa's canonisation process. You're just putting a cyber-rumour into the mouth of your employers.[/b] There's no proof of that claim at all - and the crowds that lined the streets at Mother Teresa's funeral attest to the contrary.[/quote]

actually I heard this from a poster on my board. The employers just talked about what she said about India...

Is this place fake a rumor....?

No its in the YELLOW PAGES?

Oh by the way, theres MORE THEN ONE, I do not know the exact one that is close to her clinic, but with several of them listed who knows..

[url="http://yellowpages.sulekha.com/search.aspx?txtsearch=Assembly+of+God&country=in&loc=Kolkata&areaname=&txtfiltertemp="]ASSEMBLY OF GOD HOSPITALS IN CALCUTTA/otherwise known as KOLKATA[/url]

[kenrockthefirst]

BTW, the dirty little secret in this discussion is that adherents of the Pentecostal / Fundamentalist / Evangelical religions harbor doubts as well, usually after the "honeymoon" period they experience immediately subsequent to being "saved," but can't actually talk about it because that would challenge the veracity of their "saved"-ness. Better to just stick their fingers in their ears and shout "la la la la I can't hear you I'm not listening" than actually think.