Christians Are Still Being Presecuted By Catholics

[Budge]

[quote]Persecution{by Catholic Church}Heating up South of the Border

By Gary Lane

CWN News

August 24, 2007


CWN.com - Just south of the Yucatan Peninsula, Christians are battling some storms of their own.

Persecution of evangelicals in the Mexican state of Chiapas has intensified this year.

At least 17 major incidents have been recorded since January.

CWN's Gary Lane recently visited San Juan Chamula.

Festivals like the Day of the Dead are customary celebrations in Chiapas. Many villages throughout this southern Mexican state require residents to pay a fee to cover the cost of the events.

But many evangelical Christians say the celebrations are nothing more than hedonistic, drunken orgies. They've refused to give of their time and treasure.
[b]
Some have seen their churches destroyed as a result.

A CBN News crew arrived on the scene of a church near San Juan Chamula just hours after its destruction.

Dozens of traditionalists - those who blend pagan Mayan rituals with Catholicism - used pick axes to demolish the Prince of Peace Pentecostal Church.

The destruction of another Pentecostal church in the nearby town of Las Ollas was captured on cell phone video earlier this year.

Men armed with poles and sticks can be see knocking down the tin roof.

The attackers threatened to burn the Christians inside the church.[/b]

Church pastor Rosa Hernandez says her life is frequently in danger.

"I am threatened often," Hernandez said. "The men who did this told me they had bullets and they would kill me with a bullet because I am a leader here."

Town leaders, known as Casiques, often take steps to keep evangelicals out of their towns and villages.
[b]
Some Christians have been jailed and even killed in Chiapas for sharing their faith with non-believers or for simply venturing into traditionalist Catholic towns.

One directive from the town of San Antonio Las Rosas, dated February 13, 2005, states that it is not permitted to practice or preach a religion other than Catholicism. Those doing so will be expelled and their property seized without compensation for the benefit of the community.

Human rights attorney and pastor, Esdras Alonso, has documented hundreds of incidents. He says most have violated religious freedom liberties guaranteed in the Mexican Constitution.

"Using the argument of lifestyle and customs of the indigenous peoples, they have taken away individual rights," Alonso said. " Lifestyle and customs cannot be above the constitution."
[/b]
Despite constitutional guarantees, the Casiques often enforce their own laws.

Lorenzo Lopez's cowboy hat still hangs on the living room wall of his San Juan Chamula home. The 20-year-old delighted in wearing western garb and singing Christian praise songs.

Lorenzo received Christ about two years ago at The House of Prayer, a church just down the street from his home.

He used to enjoy playing ball with his two nephews - but no more.

An angry mob killed and tortured Lorenzo for his evangelical faith.

He recently entered their traditionalist village to repay money he had borrowed to pay for his wedding.

His older brother Juan was with him and escaped the attack. Juan says he cries often because of Lorenzo's tragic death.

Other evangelicals throughout Chiapas suffer a different kind of loss. Thousands have been forced from their land and expelled from their villages simply for embracing a non-traditional faith.

Twenty-five-year-old Thomas says he returned to his home in Ocosingo to find part of it in ashes. Neighbors burned it because he was holding regular house-church meetings inside.

"We went to preach in Chilong," Thomas said. "We came late in the night - about 11:00, and we saw everything destroyed here. They don't want people to come here to hear the Gospel."

Thomas' wife, children, parents, siblings and brother's family - 15 people total - now share three small bedrooms.

He remains faithful and he says God has blessed him as a result. The house church still meets here - now outside - every Saturday evening.

And Thomas now owns an old red Volkswagen Beetle car that he uses to take the Gospel message to mountain villages.

He's praying to rebuild his home so his church can once again meet indoors when it rains.

And what if neighbors burn his house down again?

"They can take my clothes, all my property, but we are in God's hands and they cannot burn Christ and the church from our hearts," Thomas said.[/quote]

Im praying for these folks, I pray they continue preaching despite persecution.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Budge

[Aloysius]

I'm praying for them that they'll give up and rejoin the Church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church, and stop pestering the local faithful with their puritanical ridiculousness they try to pedal as a "gospel"

of course I don't support the violence done to them... but they're really asking for it trying to take way authentic faith and culture and replace it with vain modern style "worship"... and while I don't necessarily support it I cannot help buy sympathize and understand the destruction of the buildings of ecclesial communities that have come in attacking their culture and faith with their false gospel.

nor do I support some of the excessive drunkenness and/or sinfulness some of the folks end up getting into at these festivals. but I have a feeling the puritanical eyes of these heretical missionaries leave much to be desired, they see only what they can point out as bad in the festivals and thus strain their eye to see everything as bad.

[Budge]

[quote]I'm praying for them that they'll give up and rejoin the Church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church, and stop pestering the local faithful with their puritanical ridiculousness they try to pedal as a "gospel"[/quote]

Do you believe they should be silenced and that they should not be allowed to be preached to others?
[quote]I cannot help buy sympathize and understand the destruction of the buildings of ecclesial communities that have come in attacking their culture and faith with their false gospel.[/quote]

These folks have done no harm to anyone else. Witnessing to a few people is not hurting them and you sympathize with their churches being burned down?????

[quote]. but I have a feeling the puritanical eyes of these heretical missionaries leave much to be desired, they see only what they can point out as bad in the festivals and thus strain their eye to see everything as bad.[/quote]

The festivals are bad. We have done threads on them at my board. nothing CHristian about them. You like people follow after a enity called Santa Muerte "Saint Death"?

If this isnt pure occultism, I dont know what is....


[quote]he Day of the Dead activities actually span several days, beginning late at night Oct. 31, when the spirits of dead children (angelitos) start arriving, followed by adult spirits sometime during Nov. 1. They leave, after joining in a family meal, on Nov. 2. Although exact times for the spirits' entrances vary from pueblo to pueblo, the angelitos always arrive ahead of the adults.

I grew up in a French-Canadian Catholic family. From an early age, I believed that when you died, you put on a white satin smock with lace around the cuffs and joined the anonymous army of souls (in heaven if you were lucky).

CLICK FOR ACCESS Mexicans have a distinctly different view of themselves in the afterlife. First, you keep your identity, since to return to this world for the Day of the Dead, you must remain who you were. This explains the profusion of skeletons of all sizes, doing ordinary day-to-day things. If uncle José was a barber, he continues as a barber after death. Placing a skeleton figure of a barber on your altar reaffirms to uncle José that he has not been forgotten on his spiritual return.

Most Oaxacan homes have a highly adorned Day of the Dead altar.[font="Arial Black"] Sugar skulls with the names of dead loved ones inscribed in their icing indicate to the returning spirits that they have indeed returned to the right spot, where the living await their arrival. The altar is a sort of landing pad and its objects serve as signals to guide the spirits home.[/font]

Throughout the year, but especially during the Day of the Dead season, calacas, or skeletons, are displayed in shops throughout the city. In the Abastos market, for a few pesos each, you'll find cardboard, wire and cotton-ball figures depicting nearly every walk of life. The more upscale folk art stores display elaborate ceramic and paper mache calacas, individually signed by renowned Mexican folk artists.[/quote]

[img]http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/sdwells/oaxdd/Pino10-20-2001_640_1.jpg[/img]

[MichaelFilo]

Haha, all i have to say is protestant schools in Catholic countries. Attend one; see the love. If you think it's one sided I suggest you look into the tactics used by protestant who evangelize in those countries.

[prose]

Are you implying that the Catholic Church as a whole supports this? If you are, you are sadly mistaken.

Budge, you come in this forum, we welcome you, and your debates. We don't threaten you life, nor the lives of others.

Evil is everywhere, and just because a group of people have chosen to try to disguise what is absolute evil by calling themselves "catholic" does not make it so.

[Sojourner]

I just hung out with a bunch of Protestants at a retreat and had no desire to kill or persecute them.

[Aloysius]

that desire only begins to spring up when they attack your culture and faith and try to break up your families with false gospels. when they do that, you ought to live out Christian Charity and suppress your urge to kill them, but it is an understandable feeling.

and budge, family altars for day of the dead are beautiful things. you don't think God would permit those in heaven to be present to their loved ones on earth in that way?

you come in and attack someone's culture like this, spread lies and tear up families over your heretical views, and you are going to get an angry response. simple as that.

again, I don't support the violence though. I just understand it.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i have a feeling that the Catholics in this article that "blend mayan beliefs and Catholicism" are actually good Catholics, and puritanical evangelicals confuse their culture with their faith.

[HollyDolly]

There is a lot of turmoil in the Chiapas area.These so called leaders there see the evangelicals as a threat to their leadership as they would probably tell the people not to give them money for Day of the Dead or other celebrations or to do other things.These caliques or whatever resent outsiders interfering in their ruling the roost.
Many of the celebrations have little to do with christianity or the Church.I'm Hungarian-German and neither side of the family or most people of European descent have this altars to the dead.That is more the thing of the natives of Mexico.

By the way, these so called leaders would not be above murdering a priest or a nun either if they thought they were interffering in their political activities by sticking up for the poor.
What they are doing is wrong.And if the Church taught the local people their faith properly,they would not have to worry about the protestant missionaries.

[BG45]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1371647' date='Aug 27 2007, 02:44 PM']I just hung out with a bunch of Protestants at a retreat and had no desire to kill or persecute them. [/quote]

And I live with three Catholics, and don't find them trying to wreck my stuff or maim me. If anything, I can respect the fact I don't have them rooting through my stuff and trying to convert me as a Presbyterian roommate once did the other semester.

(Sadly I saw the title and I went "You know Budge hasn't been screaming about Catholicism lately..." and clicked to find her.)

[LouisvilleFan]

What I'd like to know is if the local bishops are speaking out against this violence.

Edited August 27, 2007 by LouisvilleFan

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1371673' date='Aug 27 2007, 03:09 PM'] There is a lot of turmoil in the Chiapas area.These so called leaders there see the evangelicals as a threat to their leadership as they would probably tell the people not to give them money for Day of the Dead or other celebrations or to do other things.These caliques or whatever resent outsiders interfering in their ruling the roost.
...
And if the Church taught the local people their faith properly,they would not have to worry about the protestant missionaries.[/quote]

I get the feeling that these caliques do what they can to make sure the Catholic faith isn't taught properly, because well-catechized Catholics would be just as dangerous to their authority as these Evangelicals. In some ways, I'm glad to hear that Evangelical missionaries are down there shaking things up. If the local Catholic Church is just gonna sit there and watch this stuff happen, God will send those who are actually willing to do something. If we truly believe it's in God's hands and that we are standing in the truth, why worry about it?

[HollyDolly]

Extra Ecclesiam, These people who blend mayan beliefs and Catholicism
are not good Catholics.I'm not sure what faith the ancient germanic tribes of Bavaria and Swabia practiced,but there was never any hint of it in any of the catholic devotions practiced by my dad's family. These people were not given the proper religious instruction,because if they had ,they would have given up their pagan beliefs.

Yes,the evvangelicals may have confused the culture with these peoples faith,
however these people donot want to give up the ancient beliefs and have blended them with the Catholic faith, very similar to voodoo.

I seem to recall that the jesuits in China and clergy elsewhere have gotten into trouble
because they blend the Catholic faith with native stuff to incultureate the people and make it more acceptable to the natives and i guess more likely to convert them.
This is wrong. The holy martyers of Uganda who have a feast in the Church died because they would not give up their faith. Like these evangelicals they too were harrased and even killed for trying to spread the gospel of Jesus,not some watered down mishmash to make people happy.

As far as false gospel Aloysius is concerned,even if they use the KIng james version of the bible,it is still the New testament of Jesus and the Holy Apostles.
If these people are so worried about these evangelicals,then they,the local leaders need to go to the local parish and tell the priest or whoever that the people need classes in their faith so they do not fall prey to them,that they can defend the faith.
This is I feel really more of a power stuff that a religious one and the local community leaders are using religion as an excuse to cover up what is reallly behind the attacks.

[Budge]

[quote]Haha, all i have to say is protestant schools in Catholic countries. Attend one; see the love. If you think it's one sided I suggest you look into the tactics used by protestant who evangelize in those countries.[/quote]

If youve ever been to my board, youll know that I dont excuse everything or one that calls itself Protestant or even Christian.

So what tactics are you talking about and what country?

[Budge]

[quote]re you implying that the Catholic Church as a whole supports this? If you are, you are sadly mistaken.

Budge, you come in this forum, we welcome you, and your debates. We don't threaten you life, nor the lives of others.

Evil is everywhere, and just because a group of people have chosen to try to disguise what is absolute evil by calling themselves "catholic" does not make it so.[/quote]

Here is America we have been blessed with religious freedom, which we are still hanging onto even to a certain degree even though some are trying to yank it away, via hate crime laws and more.

Yes I agree that many of you here would consider this evil.

But that is more from the influence of American PROTESTANT culture which Catholics here even have to admit has made American Catholicism a much different breed then the third world...

How many Catholics have I tangled with online who have told me the Inquisition was a good thing? quite a few in fact.