Pope: "we Will Be Judged By Our Works"

[Budge]

how many Catholics here believe it when your church tells you that "no, we do not believe works save you" How many of you have told me the same thing? Well here the Pope goes and says the complete opposite.

[quote]Heaven is an equal-opportunity destination, but to gain entry [b]one needs a "passport" stamped with virtues such as humility, mercy and truth,[/b] says Benedict XVI.[/quote]


The Pope here makes clear that he sees this "passport' of personal virtues [and works] as necessary to "gain entry" into heaven.

[quote]Quote:Get Your "Passport" Ready for Heaven, Says Pope

Stamp It With Works That Show Friendship With Christ

VATICAN CITY, AUG. 26, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Heaven is an equal-opportunity destination,[b] but to gain entry one needs a "passport" stamped with virtues such as humility, mercy and truth, says Benedict XVI.[/b]

The Pope said this today in a reflection he gave on the "narrow gate," before reciting the midday Angelus with several thousand people gathered in the courtyard of the papal summer residence at Castel Gandolfo.

The Pontiff asked: "What is meant by this 'narrow gate'? Why is it that many people do not succeed in entering through it? Is it perhaps a passage that is reserved only for a few elect?"

The Holy Father said that the message of Christ is that everybody has an equal chance of entering through the narrow gate, "but it is 'narrow' because it is demanding, it requires commitment, self-denial and mortification of one's own egoism."

Christ invites all to heaven, he said, "but with one and the same condition: that of making the effort to follow him and imitate him, taking up one's cross, as he did, and dedicating one's life to the service of our brothers."
[u][font="Arial Black"]
Benedict XVI makes the point that "we will not be judged on the basis of presumed privileges, but by our works."[/font][/u]

"True friendship with Christ," he added, "is expressed by one's way of life: it is expressed by goodness of heart, with humility, meekness and mercy, love of justice and truth, sincere and honest commitment to peace and reconciliation."

The Pope adds, "This, we might say, is the 'I.D. card' that qualifies us as authentic 'friends'; this is the 'passport' that permits us to enter into eternal life."[/quote]

[Jaime]

First just to be clear, the large font bold sentence was added by Budgie. It is not a part of the original article. It is her commentary that she has inserted into the article.

Second here is a direct quote that has not been modified

[quote]31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."[/quote]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote]The Holy Father said that the message of Christ is that everybody has an equal chance of entering through the narrow gate, "but it is 'narrow' because it is demanding, it requires commitment, self-denial and mortification of one's own egoism."

Christ invites all to heaven, he said, "but with one and the same condition: that of making the effort to follow him and imitate him, taking up one's cross, as he did, and dedicating one's life to the service of our brothers."[/quote]

It is clear he isn't talking about specific things you have to [i]do[/i], as in a list of good works or anything, but that, if you are truly following Christ, you will strive to be like Christ. I see nothing unorthodox about saying that we must deny our selves, take up our crosses, and serve our brothers and sisters. After all, this is exactly what Christ taught us. Did he not also say that there would be some who called on His name, but did not serve Him in their deeds, and so are turned away? Likewise, there will be people doing works without faith, and that is also condemned. True works are done through God's grace, and make us more like Him as well as serving others. Again, I see nothing new here.

[quote]Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."[/quote]

[quote]Matthew 25:34-40
34"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'[/quote]
Sounds like the works Pope Benedict XVI is talking about.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Archaeology cat

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1371551' date='Aug 27 2007, 03:30 PM']First just to be clear, the large font bold sentence was added by Budgie. It is not a part of the original article. It is her commentary that she has inserted into the article.

Second here is a direct quote that has not been modified[/quote]

Thanks. And you beat me to the Biblical passage. I'll leave mine up anyway.

[thessalonian]

Budge wants a debate between him and Rom 2:4-8 and Matt 25, the sheep and the goats. He says God gives you grace but you don't have to produce anything with it. Tell that to the guy with the talent that burried it in the ground. Sorry, budge, not gonna argue with the Word and your false understanding of it. Charity done in faith by grace saves. Virtue counters vice and we all by the grace of God will be made perfectly virtuous in heaven.

4] Or [b]do you presume [/b]upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is [b]meant to lead you to repentance[/b]?
[5] But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
[6] For he will render to every man[b] according to his works[/b]:
[7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, [b]he will give eternal life; [/b] [8] but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, [b]there will be wrath and fury[/b].

Nice little summary of Mt 25 isn't it. But I had a guy last week tell me this is only for the Jews. That's one way of trying to get around it.

Too bad verse 9 rules it out.

[9] There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
[10] but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good,[b] the Jew first and also the Greek[/b].

Edited August 27, 2007 by thessalonian

[kenrockthefirst]

"Faith without works is dead," anyone?

[homeschoolmom]

She

[dairygirl4u2c]

i'm pretty sure this is where everyone shows budge all the bible versuses where jesus says you must have works, then Budge doesn't respond to that.
instead of allowing what the pope said to be reconciled with the gospel parables, budge chooses to see a contradiction.

[Budge]

works do not save you.

Good works come from faith, not the other way around.

Thinking youre going to get into heaven based on your own righteousness istead of Christ's is a GIANT MISTAKE.

[font="Arial Black"]

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; [u]even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life[/u].[/font]

[Jaime]

[quote name='Budge' post='1371565' date='Aug 27 2007, 11:06 AM']works do not save you.

Good works come from faith, not the other way around.

Thinking youre going to get into heaven based on your own righteousness istead of Christ's is a GIANT MISTAKE.

[font="Arial Black"]

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; [u]even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life[/u].[/font][/quote]

Excellent!! Now you are agreeing with the Holy Father!

Keep talking like a Catholic Budgie and one day you'll be one

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1371564' date='Aug 27 2007, 09:00 AM']i'm pretty sure this is where everyone shows budge all the bible versuses where jesus says you must have works, then Budge doesn't respond to that.
instead of allowing what the pope said to be reconciled with the gospel parables, budge chooses to see a contradiction.[/quote]


[quote name='Budge' post='1371565' date='Aug 27 2007, 09:06 AM']works do not save you.

Good works come from faith, not the other way around.

Thinking youre going to get into heaven based on your own righteousness istead of Christ's is a GIANT MISTAKE.

[font="Arial Black"]

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; [u]even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life[/u].[/font][/quote]

Dairygirl must be a great and mighty soothsayer. Her prediction came to fruit in the very next post.

(Or is it that Budge's falsehoods and misrepresentation of both the scripture and general reality have become so predictable?)

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Budge' post='1371565' date='Aug 27 2007, 11:06 AM']works do not save you.

Good works come from faith, not the other way around.

Thinking youre going to get into heaven based on your own righteousness istead of Christ's is a GIANT MISTAKE.

[font="Arial Black"]

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; [u]even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life[/u].[/font][/quote]

We don't claim works alone save.

Works alone don't save. Faith alone does not save. Grace alone that produces faith and works, now that's the ticket.

[homeschoolmom]

Just curious, Budge... how do you interpret this Scripture that hot stuff quoted in post #2?

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[MIKolbe]

James 2:24

anyone?

[beatty07]

One would have to be semi-literate at best to read even a significant portion of the New Testament without realizing that we will be judged by our works. What could possibly be more clear?

Of course that isn't the same as being saved by our works. Maybe that's the distinction you're missing, Budge? We can be judged by our works, yet it remains the case that our salvation is utterly dependent on the merit of Christ, that no human being on their own could ever merit Heaven or earn Heaven.