A Guy With His Shirt Off

[CatherineM]

Whenever I ride the bus with Muslim women all I can think is how nice it must be to never have a bad hair day.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1450762' date='Jan 25 2008, 03:33 PM']so what do you propose women wear? what do the men on this thread propose women wear? what's out? what's in?
[indent][list]
[*]short sleeve tops
[*]sleeveless tops
[*]long sleeve tops
[*]scoop neck shirts
[*]tank tops
[*]knee-length skirts
[*]ankle-length skirts/dresses
[*]pants
[*]form-fitting
[*]loose-fitting
[*]not fitting at all
[*]one-piece swimsuits
[*]tankini swimsuits
[*]those weird swim things from the 1800s
[*]knee-length shorts
[*]above the knee shorts
[*]culottes
[*]capris
[/list][/indent]
if johnnydigit is advocating that we can't wear anything that shows our ankles ([mod]i went back and looked, i misunderstood what he was saying about ankles, my bad[/mod]), well, what does that leave us to wear? not much. because then you have the same type of people (not speaking of jd, but others), who say that women's pants leads them to sin. so pants are out, as are most skirts. then some people say that we can't wear sleeveless tops. others say no short sleeve. so that means only long sleeve. (btw, i'm not being snarky when i ask these questions.)

do you see how ridiculous it can get?[/quote]

i'd like jd, or any other guys to address this please.

our bodies aren't bad. to the contrary, they are good. dressing our bodies in a way that deems them as bad - i.e. they must be covered up (like burkas and such), is just as much a sin against modesty as dressing like a harlot. was it wrong when Pope John Paul II had the loin cloths on the Sistine Chapel taken off?

[jeffpugh]

Because it was art and it described the beauty of the created, unfallen mankind.

[XIX]

Lil Red, are you literally asking for a guy's opinion on those articles of clothing? Or are you posing it as more of a rhetorical question? I just want to make sure I'm clear.

Just for the record, I think all of those clothes are at least reasonably modest.

[Lil Red]

nevermind, my brain isn't working anymore.

i guess i'm a horrible immodest sinner, then.

(i'm referring to SMM's post)

and i wasn't asking why JP2 had them removed.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Lil Red

[Lil Red]

[quote name='XIX' post='1451372' date='Jan 26 2008, 10:31 PM']Lil Red, are you literally asking for a guy's opinion on those articles of clothing? Or are you posing it as more of a rhetorical question? I just want to make sure I'm clear.

Just for the record, I think all of those clothes are at least reasonably modest.[/quote]
if we're going to get into semantics of which clothing is appropriate, then i want to know. i'm not being snarky or sarcastic.

[XIX]

Personally, I wouldn't be seriously tempted by any of the articles of clothing you mentioned (with the possible exception of cullotes, because I don't know what those are)

You could argue that above-the-knee shorts or tanktops are borderline. They are usually okay, at worst they are slightly immodest. If you want to be cautious you can avoid them if you want; I wouldn't sweat it if you find yourself wearing above-the-knee shorts or a tanktop. Just make sure the shorts aren't scrunched all the way up. Don't let the shorts get THAT short--at least get halfway to the knee. IMO, shorts can be shorter than skirts.

Also, with tanktops, part of it depends on the figure of the woman--ie, how much they have to cover.

Form-fitting pants are also borderline, but a lot of that just depends on what size you are getting. If you are a 12 and you get a size 12 or 14, you should be okay. Just don't get something that's smaller than your size. I'd prefer loose-fitting, but again, I try not to pick nits.

Form fitting shirts don't really pose much of a problem because shirts tend not to be as form fitting as pants, from what I can tell. Form fitting shirts, are more on a par with loose fitting pants, just because of the way everything is...shaped. It's a lot harder for a shirt to cling to your body than a pair of pants.

Sleeveless really depends on figure and on how big the sleeveholes are. If they are like 14 inches in diameter, then it might be a bit much. But off the top of my head, I don't remember ever having a woman's underwear flashed at me as a result of a sleeveless shirt. So those should be safe.

That's my general rundown. A lot of those clothes are quite attractive and can accentuate the beauty of a woman without being a near-occasion of sin.

Edited January 27, 2008 by XIX

[Lil Red]

[quote name='XIX' post='1451376' date='Jan 26 2008, 10:34 PM']Well if the clothes in your post are also the clothes in your wardrobe, I'd say you are quite modest. And probably very cold.[/quote]
i know, i forgot about sweaters. i figured we could all agree that most sweaters are modest. (for your information, i have many sweaters, sweatshirts, long john shirts, etc.)

and for the record, i do not even own a swimsuit. i don't like to swim, and i figure everyone at the pool can do without my post-pregnancy body figure.

[XIX]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1451377' date='Jan 27 2008, 01:36 AM']i know, i forgot about sweaters. i figured we could all agree that most sweaters are modest. (for your information, i have many sweaters, sweatshirts, long john shirts, etc.)

and for the record, i do not even own a swimsuit. i don't like to swim, and i figure everyone at the pool can do without my post-pregnancy body figure.[/quote]
I figured you owned sweaters...lame attempt at humor on my part...apologies...

[Lil Red]

i figured. i'm just tired and forgot to add smilies.

[johnnydigit]

XIX with all due respect i'd rather not address your comments, as to me, they just seem like arguing just for the sake of arguing. i can and know that i can argue with you endlessly, but i would at least like to shed some light on the issue with the females here since many aren't aware of how guys typically think.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1451347' date='Jan 26 2008, 09:40 PM']i'd like jd, or any other guys to address this please.

our bodies aren't bad. to the contrary, they are good. dressing our bodies in a way that deems them as bad - i.e. they must be covered up (like burkas and such), is just as much a sin against modesty as dressing like a harlot. was it wrong when Pope John Paul II had the loin cloths on the Sistine Chapel taken off?[/quote]

that is in the context of art versus common everyday wear. covering up is not an issue of perceiving the body as bad, it's more about respect for the human person. please look into Theology of the Body by JP2, it is so enlightening and a "theological time bomb" waiting to be unleashed onto the world.
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cultures and generations change. they progressively accept things for the worst. what we accept today as normal does NOT make it okay. a lot of us here are young and don't see the bigger picture because we live it and are used to it.

the typical religious habit has remained for the most part unchanged over thousands of years, in every culture, in every generation, in any part of the world.. that says something.

on the other hand, the world has progressively shed its clothing in direct relation to the shedding of its morality and respect for the body. don't let the relative morals of the times take you over. don't be afraid! stand up and sport that burka!

[johnnydigit]

1890’s: Swimwear was modified street clothing
1910: Arms were exposed
1920: [b]You would be arrested if you appeared in a modest 21st century bathing suit[/b]
1920’s: Legs and backs were exposed
[size=3][b]1930’s: Cleavage was exposed and [u]men began to swim bare chested[/u][/b][/size]
1935: Two piece bathing suits appeared with a small break between upper and lower half
1940’s: New fabrics appeared which hugged the body
1960’s: Navels were exposed
Today: Anything goes... One piece suits with fabrics like skin that really leaves nothing to the imagination and bikinis of various categories prevail as normal.

"Why I am Against Bikini Clad Girls
and Bare Chested Boys
Swimming in My Lake"
[url="http://heritagecommunitychurch.net/articles/Why%20I%20am%20against%20Bikini%20clad%20girls%20and%20bare%20chested%20boys%20swimming%20in%20my%20lake.htm"]http://heritagecommunitychurch.net/article...20my%20lake.htm[/url]

[Deb]

Back to the topic. If a man is out mowing his lawn and takes his shirt off. No big deal. Women won't be lining up to gawk at him. A man swimming with his shirt off only makes sense to me. Swimming in clothes is pretty hard to do.

Back to the topic that wasn't the topic. Women...just dress how you want without trying to figure out which man out of the thousands you may encounter that day will you be tempting. Your brain would blow off and yes, you would be out in a burka. If your clothing would be acceptable in the office, then it is okay.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1451416' date='Jan 27 2008, 02:00 AM']that is in the context of art versus common everyday wear. covering up is not an issue of perceiving the body as bad, it's more about respect for the human person. please look into Theology of the Body by JP2, it is so enlightening and a "theological time bomb" waiting to be unleashed onto the world.[/quote]
i have read it, thanks though. we just have different takes on it. you want the emphasis to be on covering up, i want the emphasis to be on changing people's hearts.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Deb' post='1451437' date='Jan 27 2008, 06:42 AM']Back to the topic. If a man is out mowing his lawn and takes his shirt off. No big deal. Women won't be lining up to gawk at him. A man swimming with his shirt off only makes sense to me. Swimming in clothes is pretty hard to do.

Back to the topic that wasn't the topic. Women...just dress how you want without trying to figure out which man out of the thousands you may encounter that day will you be tempting. Your brain would blow off and yes, you would be out in a burka. If your clothing would be acceptable in the office, then it is okay.[/quote]
yup!

jd, your thinking is very Protestant. i.e., we can't drink because it CAN lead to alcoholism, etc.

would you please address my question of what clothing is appropriate?