My Diocese Doesn't Want Me

[daveybe]

For encouragement: a True Story...

My Uncle is a Franciscan, but he first applied to our home diocese. They diocese refused him on the grounds of his school grades. So he went to the Franciscans in NYC, who turned him down for the same reason. Eventually he found the Franciscans in Pennsylvania, and they accepted him but with a whole ton of conditions (summer school, academic probation, etc).

He is now an ordained priest, an effective pastor of two parishes, and his people absolutely love him.

[DominicanPhilosophy]

The fact that you got denied acceptance into seminary last year is a great opportunity to grow in holiness! If you have a spiritual director, be talking with him/her about this, of course. Instead of encouraging you with stories and words of wisdom, think about the great chance you have to grow close to Christ. Jesus suffered on the Cross and He is still accepting and will always accept whatever pains of your own you offer up to Him. Also, those who suffer are closest to God; think about how horribly Christ suffered, but take note of how close He was to God!

Denial is simply a part of human life, and one we must be willing to accept and move forward with, learning and growing from the decisions made in our lives that we ourselves cannot change. You can continue to grow in your relationship with God and if your vocation truly is to the priesthood, you will be aware of that and not let a simple "no" from your diocese dishearten and trump you. If you aren't called to be a priest, that's perfectly ok! Matrimony is beautiful and the married life is a hugely important state of life, as is single life!

So, before publicizing that "your diocese doesn't want you," hopefully you really prayed hard to figure out what it is God wants of you. Honestly, seminary is seven years of study, and if you were swayed so easily away from God - as you stated that you hadn't really been able to find God lately - maybe you should consider your motives for wanting to enter and if you yourself feel that you could handle the lifestyle. People will insult you about your vocation and if you become a priest, you will most likely get harassed, especially if you ever go on Marches for Life, etc., but you have to be willing to defend that, not shy away from it.

God bless you, and I will pray for you and your vocation; please pray for me, too!

[EricTheRed]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1589188' date='Jul 2 2008, 01:31 PM']Well, for the last year, or so- when I received that letter, I haven't heard God.[/quote]

It is hard to hear God, Humble yourself in Prayer and "Let Go Let God"

Pray the Rosary Bro!!!

[Brother Ed]

[quote name='EricTheRed' post='1595674' date='Jul 8 2008, 10:09 PM']It is hard to hear God, Humble yourself in Prayer and "Let Go Let God"

Pray the Rosary Bro!!![/quote]

Just keep praying and spend time in adoration. God talks to us in so many different ways. There is a saying,
"The door maybe closed, but somewhere, God leaves a window open."
So, please open your heart more to him......
I was turned done by three communities at first, then I was accepted by the Capuchins in Pittsburgh, I only stayed 2 years, but was invovled in parish ministry for 26 yrs..... and four years ago, I was praying and I really felt the biggest tug in my heart,which I pushed aside for all those years. I knew what was going on.... and I listened. I entered the community that I am in today, and I have never been happier.....

So, please, keep your heart open, pray!!!! God is still talking to you

Pax et Bonum,
Br. Ed

[Guest KevinSymonds]

[quote name='DominicanPhilosophy' post='1595645' date='Jul 8 2008, 09:24 PM']The fact that you got denied acceptance into seminary last year is a great opportunity to grow in holiness! If you have a spiritual director, be talking with him/her about this, of course. Instead of encouraging you with stories and words of wisdom, think about the great chance you have to grow close to Christ. Jesus suffered on the Cross and He is still accepting and will always accept whatever pains of your own you offer up to Him. Also, those who suffer are closest to God; think about how horribly Christ suffered, but take note of how close He was to God!

Denial is simply a part of human life, and one we must be willing to accept and move forward with, learning and growing from the decisions made in our lives that we ourselves cannot change. You can continue to grow in your relationship with God and if your vocation truly is to the priesthood, you will be aware of that and not let a simple "no" from your diocese dishearten and trump you. If you aren't called to be a priest, that's perfectly ok! Matrimony is beautiful and the married life is a hugely important state of life, as is single life!

So, before publicizing that "your diocese doesn't want you," hopefully you really prayed hard to figure out what it is God wants of you. Honestly, seminary is seven years of study, and if you were swayed so easily away from God - as you stated that you hadn't really been able to find God lately - maybe you should consider your motives for wanting to enter and if you yourself feel that you could handle the lifestyle. People will insult you about your vocation and if you become a priest, you will most likely get harassed, especially if you ever go on Marches for Life, etc., but you have to be willing to defend that, not shy away from it.

God bless you, and I will pray for you and your vocation; please pray for me, too! [/quote]

I can not agree enough with the above wise words from DominicanPhilosophy. I have found quite a comfort in recent times with St. Thomas' theology of the religious state as presented in Fr. Richard Butler's book "Religious Vocation: An Unnecessary Mystery." [b]GET THIS BOOK[/b]!

I would like to put my two cents into this discussion concerning some practical advice that I've obtained through some very hard-earned experiences and further reflections.

The first thing concerns college. [b]Debt does not help entrance into the religious state/priesthood[/b]. Do not, I repeat do NOT go into debt if you can avoid it. I do not care if people promise you the sun, the moon and the stars. If you can avoid it, do not go into debt. Remember, the Bible frowns upon going into debt as you become a slave to the lender. Slavery is unbecoming to the dignity we have as children of God, delivered from the bondage of slavery to sin and who live under the law of Grace.

Numerous Dioceses and religious communities were caught unprepared for the changes that were to happen in society and culture since 1960. One of those changes was the number of people attending college. The numbers went up and this has left more people in debt. The Church was unprepared for this dynamic and it has hurt potential candidates to the priesthood/religious state. There is no money to help potential candidates with college debt, only a few Dioceses were smart--one in particular that I know of--and made some financial investments to create a fund precisely for this purpose. Most Dioceses/communities will tell you to pay off your debts first and if you have a whopping amount such as $80,000 I hope your desire to enter the religious state/priesthood has longevity because that is what you'll need to sustain you through the long years of paying that debt.

All of us need to understand the above dynamic because it is the reality of the situation the Church is in today and we need to know how to act maturely as Catholics to ward against making bad and foolish decisions on our part. One bad decision would be to go into college debt with a vocation in mind hoping for benefactors or just plain old, "God will provide."

Our country is slipping dangerously close to an economic recession. Those benefactors might be a little hard to find within the next year or two. Also consider the fact that when you sign off on that paperwork to receive college loans, it is YOUR responsibility to pay them, not a benefactor's. It is a matter of [b]pride[/b] to think that just because you may or do have a vocation that some nice benefactor(s) will come along and pay YOUR debts. If I were to have a good amount of money and wished to sponsor a candidate to the priesthood/religious state, I would never sponsor someone who had this idea that they are somehow owed their debts being paid by a benefactor to enter the priesthood/religious state. Of course, not everyone has this 'sense of being owed' and so we must look at things on a case-by-case basis.

Forgive me if I seem that I let the hammer fall hard. If it seems hard, it is because of the hard-earned experience I have gained throughout the past few years and I do not want to see anyone in the same boat as I am.

I read that Franciscan University of Steubenville's (FUS) Pre-Theologate program was mentioned earlier. As a graduate of the University, my hard-earned recommendation to you is not go to FUS to enter the Pre-Theologate program without a Diocese sponsoring/backing you. The University has no substantial amount of money to offer its students in financial aid and the amount of debt mentioned by a previous poster is usually what people end up owing. Many, and I do mean many vocation directors will not even look at your application if they know the applicant has so much debt. [i]Some will even scream at you over the phone[/i]. The horror stories I can tell you!

A common problem nowadays is that vocation directors are not straightforward with their applicants. I have experienced this pain and felt it deeply. That is why I can tell you what is going on and what [b]you[/b] can do about it. I emphasize the word 'you' because right now the ball is in your court, Catholicinsd, and I do not see you handling it very well. My goal is to help you, no matter if it hurts for you to hear the truth (whatever it might be) because your spiritual growth depends upon it and ultimately your vocation.

Many do not realize that a community or Diocese that is authentically living the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not reject vocational applicants with a slight of hand, mistreat them and then play like nothing is wrong. They will treat you with interest and sincerity of heart. By so doing, they demonstrate where their treasure lays. A part of being an authentic Diocese/community (if we wish to use labels) means, however, that they will be honest and forthright with the applicant if they see that a need to grow spiritually exists before they would accept the applicant. That is charity.

They would also commit to helping the applicant achieve the goals he or she needs for admittance through practical advice and perhaps setting the applicant up with a good spiritual director.

Catholicinsd, remember that you are the one who wants to give yourself with an undivided heart to the pursuit of the Kingdom of God and brings others to it. If a Diocese or community, for whatever reason, rejects this desire with a smack and a smirk, you do NOT want anything to do with them so do NOT waste your time and do NOT throw yourself a pity party. Your eyes are the ones that are supposed to be fixed on heaven so shake the dust from your shoes and continue forward.

I have found that there are different reasons why people get turned down. Among many Catholic circles today, the applicant's orthodoxy is typically cited as the reason why they are turned down. I do not deny that such a rejection happens but the whole liberal/conservative nonsense in the Church today has dangerously become the scapegoat for covering people's unsuitability for the priesthood. As a result, people who have some growing up to do are not maturing in Christ and instead whine about how they've been treated. Yet, such whining only produces the [i]bona fide[/i] evidence of their rejection in the first place!

There is a lot more than could be said and I fear that I've said too much as it is so I leave you with the following advice, Catholicinsd:

Remember to grow into the maturity we are all called to in Jesus Christ. Get a good spiritual director and start doing some good holy reading on the subject of Christian maturity. There are books out there. The ones by Dr. Rudolf Allers tend to be beneficial such as "Forming Character in Adolescents" (available at www.booksforcatholics.com).

Do not give up. You are young yet so take the time to learn the wonderful and amazing things God has in store for you.

[i]In pacem, benedicamus Domino[/i]!
-Kevin Symonds

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='KevinSymonds' post='1600961' date='Jul 16 2008, 06:15 AM']I can not agree enough with the above wise words from DominicanPhilosophy. I have found quite a comfort in recent times with St. Thomas' theology of the religious state as presented in Fr. Richard Butler's book "Religious Vocation: An Unnecessary Mystery." [b]GET THIS BOOK[/b]!

I would like to put my two cents into this discussion concerning some practical advice that I've obtained through some very hard-earned experiences and further reflections.

The first thing concerns college. [b]Debt does not help entrance into the religious state/priesthood[/b]. Do not, I repeat do NOT go into debt if you can avoid it. I do not care if people promise you the sun, the moon and the stars. If you can avoid it, do not go into debt. Remember, the Bible frowns upon going into debt as you become a slave to the lender. Slavery is unbecoming to the dignity we have as children of God, delivered from the bondage of slavery to sin and who live under the law of Grace.

Numerous Dioceses and religious communities were caught unprepared for the changes that were to happen in society and culture since 1960. One of those changes was the number of people attending college. The numbers went up and this has left more people in debt. The Church was unprepared for this dynamic and it has hurt potential candidates to the priesthood/religious state. There is no money to help potential candidates with college debt, only a few Dioceses were smart--one in particular that I know of--and made some financial investments to create a fund precisely for this purpose. Most Dioceses/communities will tell you to pay off your debts first and if you have a whopping amount such as $80,000 I hope your desire to enter the religious state/priesthood has longevity because that is what you'll need to sustain you through the long years of paying that debt.

All of us need to understand the above dynamic because it is the reality of the situation the Church is in today and we need to know how to act maturely as Catholics to ward against making bad and foolish decisions on our part. One bad decision would be to go into college debt with a vocation in mind hoping for benefactors or just plain old, "God will provide."

Our country is slipping dangerously close to an economic recession. Those benefactors might be a little hard to find within the next year or two. Also consider the fact that when you sign off on that paperwork to receive college loans, it is YOUR responsibility to pay them, not a benefactor's. It is a matter of [b]pride[/b] to think that just because you may or do have a vocation that some nice benefactor(s) will come along and pay YOUR debts. If I were to have a good amount of money and wished to sponsor a candidate to the priesthood/religious state, I would never sponsor someone who had this idea that they are somehow owed their debts being paid by a benefactor to enter the priesthood/religious state. Of course, not everyone has this 'sense of being owed' and so we must look at things on a case-by-case basis.

Forgive me if I seem that I let the hammer fall hard. If it seems hard, it is because of the hard-earned experience I have gained throughout the past few years and I do not want to see anyone in the same boat as I am.

I read that Franciscan University of Steubenville's (FUS) Pre-Theologate program was mentioned earlier. As a graduate of the University, my hard-earned recommendation to you is not go to FUS to enter the Pre-Theologate program without a Diocese sponsoring/backing you. The University has no substantial amount of money to offer its students in financial aid and the amount of debt mentioned by a previous poster is usually what people end up owing. Many, and I do mean many vocation directors will not even look at your application if they know the applicant has so much debt. [i]Some will even scream at you over the phone[/i]. The horror stories I can tell you!

A common problem nowadays is that vocation directors are not straightforward with their applicants. I have experienced this pain and felt it deeply. That is why I can tell you what is going on and what [b]you[/b] can do about it. I emphasize the word 'you' because right now the ball is in your court, Catholicinsd, and I do not see you handling it very well. My goal is to help you, no matter if it hurts for you to hear the truth (whatever it might be) because your spiritual growth depends upon it and ultimately your vocation.

Many do not realize that a community or Diocese that is authentically living the Gospel of Jesus Christ will not reject vocational applicants with a slight of hand, mistreat them and then play like nothing is wrong. They will treat you with interest and sincerity of heart. By so doing, they demonstrate where their treasure lays. A part of being an authentic Diocese/community (if we wish to use labels) means, however, that they will be honest and forthright with the applicant if they see that a need to grow spiritually exists before they would accept the applicant. That is charity.

They would also commit to helping the applicant achieve the goals he or she needs for admittance through practical advice and perhaps setting the applicant up with a good spiritual director.

Catholicinsd, remember that you are the one who wants to give yourself with an undivided heart to the pursuit of the Kingdom of God and brings others to it. If a Diocese or community, for whatever reason, rejects this desire with a smack and a smirk, you do NOT want anything to do with them so do NOT waste your time and do NOT throw yourself a pity party. Your eyes are the ones that are supposed to be fixed on heaven so shake the dust from your shoes and continue forward.

I have found that there are different reasons why people get turned down. Among many Catholic circles today, the applicant's orthodoxy is typically cited as the reason why they are turned down. I do not deny that such a rejection happens but the whole liberal/conservative nonsense in the Church today has dangerously become the scapegoat for covering people's unsuitability for the priesthood. As a result, people who have some growing up to do are not maturing in Christ and instead whine about how they've been treated. Yet, such whining only produces the [i]bona fide[/i] evidence of their rejection in the first place!

There is a lot more than could be said and I fear that I've said too much as it is so I leave you with the following advice, Catholicinsd:

Remember to grow into the maturity we are all called to in Jesus Christ. Get a good spiritual director and start doing some good holy reading on the subject of Christian maturity. There are books out there. The ones by Dr. Rudolf Allers tend to be beneficial such as "Forming Character in Adolescents" (available at www.booksforcatholics.com).

Do not give up. You are young yet so take the time to learn the wonderful and amazing things God has in store for you.

[i]In pacem, benedicamus Domino[/i]!
-Kevin Symonds[/quote]

Mr. Symonds,

That was one of the most articulate, well thought out posts I have ever read. I think that you have an excellent grasp of the issues at hand and are clearly able to state them concisely and without "labelling" or otherwise "bowing down" in some form of idolotry to your own thoughts, experiences and opinions. Not something too many of us do well. GOOD FOR YOU! Are you considering a vocation to priesthood or religious life? I for one, hope so. One would do well to heed your advice. God bless and keep you always.


Peace.

[Guest KevinSymonds]

[quote name='gloriagurl' post='1600990' date='Jul 16 2008, 08:22 AM']Mr. Symonds,

That was one of the most articulate, well thought out posts I have ever read. I think that you have an excellent grasp of the issues at hand and are clearly able to state them concisely and without "labelling" or otherwise "bowing down" in some form of idolotry to your own thoughts, experiences and opinions. Not something too many of us do well. GOOD FOR YOU! Are you considering a vocation to priesthood or religious life? I for one, hope so. One would do well to heed your advice. God bless and keep you always.
Peace.[/quote]

All glory to God, thank you for your post. My post was based on a lot of experience and was directly from my heart.

Praised be Jesus Christ
-Kevin Symonds

[littlesister]

Good thinking, Kevin, on every count. I'll second "gloriagurl" all the way, and wish there were a way to make it required reading for everyone considering religious/seminary life in the near or distant futre.

[Maria]

Catholicinsd, you say you've given up the idea of a vocation to the priesthood. Please, don't give it up. Entrust it (whatever 'it' means to you right now) to God, then focus on learning to walk with your hand in His, trusting Him to lead by right paths. The goal is not to become a priest or whatever goal you have now. The goal is to do the will of the Father, and if we're faithful in the small stuff, He'll entrust the big stuff to us.

[Maria]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1589188' date='Jul 2 2008, 02:31 PM']Well, for the last year, or so- when I received that letter, I haven't heard God.[/quote]
That must be very tough on you. At least, it was very tough on me when I could no longer sense God's presence. I'm very thankful that I wasn't going through a time of doubt, too, because if I hadn't had the certain knowledge that God was there, even though I couldn't interiorly reach out and 'touch' Him, it would have been awful. Hell must be horrible. *shudder*
Strangely enough, during that time I spent more time at church than I normally do. It's as though, not feeling His presence throughout the day, I drawn more to His Eucharistic presence. And it's not as though I felt His presence there, either. I would always leave the church feeling miserably lonely, yet I'd keep going back. Mind, I always go to church more when I'm feeling lonely.

[jkaands]

[quote name='KevinSymonds' post='1601010' date='Jul 16 2008, 09:12 AM']All glory to God, thank you for your post. My post was based on a lot of experience and was directly from my heart.

Praised be Jesus Christ
-Kevin Symonds[/quote]

KS,

What a great post!

Keep up and post often. We need you here!

I second your comments about debt. Avoid debt at all costs. It really narrows your options down the road.

A recurring theme on this forum, is "if only..." as in: "if only I could attend (have attended) a Catholic college, attend Steubenville, I could be (have become) a priest, nun, religious." --especially regarding current vocation discernment or life choices and mistakes in making these choices in the past.

A major part of maturing is learning to make responsible choices and taking responsibility for those choices and past life choices that weren't so smart.

It is hard to accept that one doesn't always have a lot of choices in higher education with restrictions on finances and availability of financial help. But one [i]can [/i]live at home/ go to a local community college and/or university/ and[i] pursue a vocation[/i] while actually living in the world. These lessons in self-denial and long-range planning can go a long way in preparing one for religious live/ priesthood/secular life. And if one then wants to pursue religious life or priesthood, believe me, the vocation directors are going to really appreciate the candidate who is debt-free!

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1604563' date='Jul 21 2008, 03:20 PM']It is hard to accept that one doesn't always have a lot of choices in higher education with restrictions on finances and availability of financial help. But one [i]can [/i]live at home/ go to a local community college and/or university/ and[i] pursue a vocation[/i] while actually living in the world. These lessons in self-denial and long-range planning can go a long way in preparing one for religious live/ priesthood/secular life. And if one then wants to pursue religious life or priesthood, believe me, the vocation directors are going to really appreciate the candidate who is debt-free![/quote]


I understand what you're saying, but ...

See, I did everything, I thought I was supposed to do. When I figured out I had a vocation, I quit school and got a job, a hard, grueling, on your feet 65hrs/ week job, to pay off my 5,000 in debt. Other 20 year olds had parties, I slaved in the salt mine. The humanity! My blisters had blisters. I used to think such a thing was not possible, but now I know the truth. This lasted a year, at which point I was able to drag my haggard, exhausted self to the convent and enter joyfully.

Fast forward, and here I am, two years and 1 chronic illness later ... no spot in the convent available for me anymore, and no degree to help me make it out here in the mad, mad world.

Now I hear all the time about people with 30, 40, 50, 60 grand in educational debt, who apply to a grant program or get benefactors and snap! It vanishes.

It makes me really seethingly angry, envious, jealous, bitter and all sorts of other humiliating things. It's despicable. I hate feeling this way.

Things happened the way they did for a reason, and I guess I have to have faith to believe that God won't punish me for being ... (naive? generous?)

But I can't help but feel like I screwed myself over a bit.

I don't know what advice I would give... go ahead, take out a bunch of loans, if God wants you in religious life He'll find a way to pay it off? Because He does seem to find a way for some people ...

Edited July 22, 2008 by Lilllabettt

[Guest KevinSymonds]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' post='1604823' date='Jul 21 2008, 07:17 PM']I understand what you're saying, but ...

See, I did everything, I thought I was supposed to do. When I figured out I had a vocation, I quit school and got a job, a hard, grueling, on your feet 65hrs/ week job, to pay off my 5,000 in debt. Other 20 year olds had parties, I slaved in the salt mine. The humanity! My blisters had blisters. I used to think such a thing was not possible, but now I know the truth. This lasted a year, at which point I was able to drag my haggard, exhausted self to the convent and enter joyfully.

Fast forward, and here I am, two years and 1 chronic illness later ... no spot in the convent available for me anymore, and no degree to help me make it out here in the mad, mad world.

Now I hear all the time about people with 30, 40, 50, 60 grand in educational debt, who apply to a grant program or get benefactors and snap! It vanishes.

It makes me really seethingly angry, envious, jealous, bitter and all sorts of other humiliating things. It's despicable. I hate feeling this way.

Things happened the way they did for a reason, and I guess I have to have faith to believe that God won't punish me for being ... (naive? generous?)

But I can't help but feel like I screwed myself over a bit.

I don't know what advice I would give... go ahead, take out a bunch of loans, if God wants you in religious life He'll find a way to pay it off? Because He does seem to find a way for some people ...[/quote]

I am very sorry you had this experience. It sounds like a terrible tragedy.

I would like to ask you if $5,000 is all you had in debt?

Peace!
-KJS

[Guest FrCorey]

I also say, don't give up! I hate to say it, but the romans are not the only catholic group on the block. there are many other in commuion groups in catholicism. I started with a independent catholic group and now our group is in line to merge into full commuion with rome. and we are a lutheran group. the holy father has asked for us to finally come back home after a long long time.
and they only ask we follow the roman rites and rules and laws, but we are 100% valid and don't have to go back to seminary or get reordained. and we are from the Carlos Duarta Costa lines.
once said to be cast out from rome because of bishops not listening to the popes orders. now we
are forgiven for what our bishops did a long time ago and asked to come home. so, what I mean is don't ever give up. if GOD is truly calling you that feeling will never leave your heart. God Bless!

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='KevinSymonds' post='1618308' date='Aug 5 2008, 04:31 PM']I am very sorry you had this experience. It sounds like a terrible tragedy.

I would like to ask you if $5,000 is all you had in debt?[/quote]


That's all I had. I went to one of the most expensive schools in the country (George Washington University) but its very well endowed. I got a lot of need-based grants and academic scholarships from the institution, and I also held down a couple of work study jobs ... all together, I was able to get 5 semesters under my belt with only 5 grand in loans.

The upside of the whole thing is that I have 3 semesters to finish, and I get to re-start debt free.

Don't worry, it's not such a terrible tragedy. I'm just a bit of a drama queen.
No, really, it is quite crummy. But I'm trying to have a sense of humour about it.