Brother Adam Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Wow. I just found out from a fellow Catholic PM'er that this doctrine is a heresy. I'm glad to find this out since the more i read about it the more it scared me. Don't get me wrong, I have the upmost respect for Mary, but to declare that she suffered for the sins of the world with Christ is WAY wrong. When the Church invokes Mary under the title, "Coredemptrix", she means that Mary uniquely participated in the redemption of the human family by Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Saviour. At the Annunciation (cf.Lk.1:38) Mary freely cooperated in giving the Second Person of the Trinity his human body which is the very instrument of redemption, as Scripture tells us: "We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Heb.10:10). And at the foot of the cross of our Saviour (Jn.19:26), Mary's intense sufferings, united with those of her Son, as Pope John Paul II tells us, were, "also a contribution to the Redemption of us all" (Salvifici Doloris, n.25). Because of this intimate sharing in the redemption accomplished by the Lord, the Mother of the Redeemer is uniquely and rightly referred to by Pope John Paul II and the Church as the "Coredemptrix." It is important to note that the prefix "co" in the title Coredemptrix does not mean "equal to" but rather "with", coming from the Latin word cum. The Marian title Coredemptrix never places Mary on a level of equality with her Divine Son, Jesus Christ. Rather it refers to Mary's unique human participation which is completely secondary and subordinate to the redeeming role of Jesus, who alone is true God and true Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLAZEr Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 This doctrine is not a heresy. It's not even a doctrine. But its still not a heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Don't get me wrong, I have the upmost respect for Mary, but to declare that she suffered for the sins of the world with Christ is WAY wrong. Agreed completely... Mary should be respected, honored, and revered... And, while her role was vital for God's plan to unfold, she is not the means through which we are given salvation... It is through Christ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 (edited) Agreed completely... Mary should be respected, honored, and revered... And, while her role was vital for God's plan to unfold, she is not the means through which we are given salvation... It is through Christ... But it doesn't mean that she's the means of salvation rather than Christ. BTW, I sense a debate coming on. Moderators, you know what you need to do! Edited February 8, 2004 by Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 But it doesn't mean that she's the means of salvation rather than Christ. BTW, I sense a debate coming on. Moderators, you know what you need to do! REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION of "Co-Redemptrix" I suppose I misunderstood what the term means... She is definitely NOT "Co-Redeemer"... I thought that's what it meant...shame on this cradle Catholic! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willguy Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 The idea of Mary being equal to Christ in his salvific work is heresy. However, the idea of Co-Redemptrix does not usually mean this. The prefix "co-" is not meant to imply equality, but simply "worked with." Obviously Mary's work contributed to our salvation, much the same way that if you witness to your friend you are contributing to their salvation. We all can assist in the redemption of another, the same way Mary participated in ours (well, not the exact same way, as we won't be giving birth to Christ, but you get what I mean). Edited by willguy because I made a blunder and said something very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 We are all, in a sense, Co-Redeemers. Ummmm.... I REALLY gotta disagree with this statement, bro.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 REALLY GOOD EXPLANATION of "Co-Redemptrix" I suppose I misunderstood what the term means... She is definitely NOT "Co-Redeemer"... I thought that's what it meant...shame on this cradle Catholic! 50 lashes with a wet noodle for you, inDEED! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 The idea of Mary being equal to Christ in his salvific work is heresy. However, the idea of Co-Redemptrix does not usually mean this. The prefix "co-" is not meant to imply equality, but simply "worked with." I agree with this! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 50 lashes with a wet noodle for you, inDEED! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 (edited) I just found out from a fellow Catholic PM'er that this doctrine is a heresy. Actually this doctrine is not heresy but is an official teaching of the Catholic Church. If it's heresy you could point to where this doctrine was condemned. You cannot do this. And it can be shown that this doctrine has been taught by the ordinary magisterium in a definitive way. Here is my post from a couple weeks ago on this doctrine: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=6422&hl= Also note that this teaching will be proclaimed dogma at some point. The sooner the better. Also if any of you really think this doctrine is heresy (first I would say you probably don't understand the doctrine), be aware that you would be calling some pretty interesting people heretics. Pope Leo XIII, St. Pope Pius X, Pope Pius IX, Pope Pius XII, Pope John Paul II, etc.. Not to mention countless saints and some of the greatest theologians ever. And there are hundreds of cardinals and bishops in the Church today who promote the proclaimation of this doctrine as a dogma. It's only a matter of time. Edited February 8, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willguy Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 inDEED, I was using the word Co-Redeemer incorrectly. Let me say that we all, in a sense, can work with Christ in the salvation of another, the same way Mary, as Co-Redemptrix, assisted in our salvation. I'll edit my original post to say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 (edited) We are all, in a sense, Co-Redeemers. Ummmm.... I REALLY gotta disagree with this statement, bro.... It's part of catholic doctrine. That's what redemptive suffering is all about. It's co-redemptive suffering if you want to get technical. This is the basis of offering things up. This is the basis of making reparation, of victim souls, etc. This is also the basis of Catholics being able to say that suffering has meaning. It's a biblical concept and it's what the Church teaches. You may not like it, but it's at the heart of the Catholic Faith. We are not simply saved through imputed righeousness or something, we are associated with the paschal mystery and have become sharers or cooperators in Christ's work of salvation. Edited February 8, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Laudate_Dominum: You're right...I COMPLETELY misunderstood what the term "Co-Redemptrix" means...as I suppose Brother Adam did as well. My apologies! willguy: I feel what you were sayin' bro...no harm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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