Day In The Life Of

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his [b]beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys [/b]throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.[/quote]

Edited August 18, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[Cure of Ars]

There is a Cost-Benefit Analysis that needs to be made for each point made in your article. This article is overly simplistic because each one of the sighted positives came at a cost that was not acknowledged. Were to draw the line is arguable but it is not one sided.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Cure of Ars

[dairygirl4u2c]

agreed.
this should be apparent to the rational non-hardcore one way or the other people here.

[Justin86]

[quote]Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards.[/quote]
Fought and [b]died[/b]? Bush must've lied....

As far as unions go they started out as good things but became worse then the corpations they fight against. I would never live in a state that had unions myself, and am proud to come from a right-to-work state.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Justin86

[Dismas]

[quote]Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.[/quote]
Joe might have good clean water, but Dismas lives in Liberal run Milwaukee, where the water regularly comes out of the tap in strange colors from brown to pink, and so had to buy a home fiddler after researching what was the most dependable water fiddler. While Joe has safe medications thanks to government mandate, Dismas is waiting for a medication to become available in the US, because there aren't enough special interests pushing it along the FDA while "Plan B" pills that are known to be dangerous got the fast and easy route. Provided Dismas could get the medication that would improve his life, he knows that if liberals hadn't tinkered with the English Common Law inherited by America, he would have had much less to worry about corporate obfuscation of test results. After all, the FDA hasn't proven to be 100% either.

[quote]All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.[/quote]
Joe might be blithely grateful for this if he thought about it. Dismas has looked into the matter a bit more deeply. It seems that blanket medical plans became "essential benefits" of employment because management during the Liberal Truman Administration had placed an artificial ceiling on how much cash a laborer could receive. Dismas considers himself savvy enough to shop for his car insurance and get a good price, if only he had health insurance providers fighting for his money. Then perhaps things like smoking and exercise and diet might be more easily regulated within society without yet further government spending.

Actually, some Liberal (actually a Communist) wrote a fictional account of a slaughterhouse worker's life in the Nineteenth Century. Said Liberal described a horror house of putrescence that if it weren't fiction, would have landed him in a libel suit. The quality of meats, however, improved with greater competition thanks to anti-trust laws which stand at a Liberal-Conservative point of agreement.

[quote]Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.[/quote]
Little does Joe know that that shampoo is actually filled with toxic chemicals thanks to our permanent "Most Favored Nation" status thanks to Bill Clinton and the Democrat Congress. While Joe may breathe easier, Dismas is busy shutting his windows and changing his air fiddler as the air is blowing in from Lake Michigan. You see, in Milwaukee, some tree-hugging Liberal decided that instead of separating the sewers, he should blow billions on a "Deep Tunnel" that will hold excess rain water so all sewage could be treated and thus make Gaia happy. Sadly, the Deep Tunnel does not work as promised and now Dismas's own human waste is floating untreated into the Lake.

[edit: Also of note, downtown Milwaukee is sinking, as the Deep Tunnel is slowly collapsing under the weight of the ground above it. If we don't spend millions, perhaps billions more, downtown might collapse in a giant sinkhole. Thanks Mayor Norquist]

If that weren't enough, while Joe had sweet, clean air, Dismas has an ozone haze thanks to further Liberal activism. You see, ethanol is an inefficient fuel, and so Dismas is forced by government mandate to buy more gallons of gasahol than he would if he used petrol. Also, Dismas not only has to pay taxes for fat government subsidies of ethanol, but also has to pay a premium on gasoline (and on corn, milk, meat, etc thanks to supply and demand) mixed with ethanol. While this Liberal juice is robbing poor Dismas blind, his car is being destroyed from the inside. You see, ethanol burns significantly hotter, and for some reason, this harms aluminum engine blocks and aluminum exhaust systems. This in turn causes Dismas' dysfunctional car to pollute more than it should considering its year and milage. Ethanol, by the way, was the best of three possible chemicals meant to "improve the air quality" according to (Liberal) V.P. Al Gore. What about the other two? Well, they seem to cause severe breathing problems in some people, not to mention they leech into the groundwater, making it undrinkable.

[edit: Also, Joe doesn't know it, but his public transportation costs much more than the toll. You see, taxpayers like Joe shell out the difference, often totaling up above the cost of driving himself. Think T.I.N.S.T.A.A.F.L. Joe!]

[quote]Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.[/quote]
While unions did have a major place in offsetting the power of monopolistic trusts, they are currently dying out in private industry. Why? Because there is such thing as competition, not to mention supply and demand. Currently, with an unemployment level of about 4.5%, it is currently a market very favorable for Labor. Dismas does not need a union anymore, as he can quit at the drop of a hat, and get hired somewhere else for better money or conditions. This is good for Dismas, as he has framed somewhere at his parents' house a $0.13 paycheck from his first job, thanks to union rules demanding part time kids have to pay the same dues as full time lifers, but none of the union benefits. Oh, and Dismas quit just before a strike, where full time workers demanded more money, but Dismas would get nothing out of it. Sticking up for the little guy my keister.

Dismas has elected to use a (Conservative sponsored) Health Savings Account with only catastrophic health insurance. After two years, the money saved will exceed the benefits found in standard health insurance. Dismas would have gotten a better deal, but that is already discussed.

[quote]Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.[/quote]

Actually, it was the government's fault on the banking thing. For some reason, when a government prints more gold certificates than the gold it has, the poor banker has no chance in making good on that certificate in gold coinage. Thankfully, a Liberal stepped in and stripped the US dollar of its gold standard and told us just to "trust" that the bill was good in and of itself. Sure, the government is now free to print as much paper as it wants and mismanage credit without consequence. Oh, and now Joe watches his bank account's interest fight tooth and nail against ever present inflation. This is just on the short term, Dismas remembers that inflation is self-compounding. Consider that the gold in a one dollar coin of yesteryear (1889) is currently (Aug 17th 2007) worth $317.45. Instead of trying to get rid of the penny, we would likely be trying to add a "milli" coin.

[quote]Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.[/quote]
Of course, Joe needed a college education. For some reason, the standards of the socialist public schools has slipped so far, Joe couldn't prove that thirteen of his eighteen first years of life weren't wasted. University degrees are thus watered down, attempting to do for people for four times the cost of high school what the high school should have done. A Bachelor's Degree once meant a serious commitment to academic studies.

[Edit: The local Catholic school tuition of $2,200 is a fraction of the school district cost per student enrolled, and yet graduates 98% with more than 85% going on to college. Most of these students are poor inner-city kids who received tuition vouchers thanks to those evil ultra conservative Republicans. Since the do-gooder liberals know how evil those vouchers really are, they have tried repeatedly at eliminating them by any means necessary. Very few students actually get those lucky lottery tickets out of the ghetto, so those not so lucky kids go to the MPS system. MPS students only graduate 45% of the time. Those great Liberals sure know their priorities: the teacher's union comes first.]

Of course, if Dismas wants to advance in his current career track, he has to get a BS degree. Sure, Dismas is a non-union factory worker, yet his company needs skilled workers, and is willing to reimburse Dismas for the cost of part-time school in the hopes of retaining him in a higher capacity. This wasn't union negotiated either. It's just smart business in a tight market.

As for the mortgage, I bet Joe is really happy now that his house is worth half of what he paid for it thanks to government manipulation of mortgage debt and the ever present American drive to make money on speculative markets. Thankfully, while everyone and their brother was buying houses and condos on variable interest loans back in the not-quite-a-recession-recession, Dismas negotiated his rent, as Dismas is not sure he wants to be the land-owning type.

[quote]Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)[/quote]

First, has anyone noticed how much is put into safety and crash tests in marketing? If Nanny government didn't handle it, the market would have, especially once the Germans and Japanese (and now Korean and other) car manufacturers entered the scene and shook American unionized Big Three complacency up. After all, remember those infamous "Monday morning cars" with the beer cans rattling in the chassis?

Gee, how did farms ever get built before the Farmers Home Administration? Where did all the food come from before the New Deal? Magic?

Electrification was indeed stepped up thanks to the New Deal. Sure, it would have happened albeit more slowly without massive government assistance, but this was actually a feather in the Liberal hat. Of course, now keeping the lights on is more difficult than ever thanks to Liberals. Why? Because tree hugging environmentalists protest any new electrical plants besides inefficient solar and impractical wind generators. Even the few wind generators that would help are thrown out, as limousine liberals like Edward Kennedy might possibly see them on a clear day on the horizon from his mansion.

[quote]He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.[/quote]

Too bad Joe will never see a red cent of Social Security, as liberals invented it as a pyramid scheme, robbed it of its assets to pay for the Great Society welfare state (not to mention to pay for the Vietnam war, yes it was started by a Democrat), and then aborted his generation into oblivion. The one slim possibility that Joe had in collecting was put down thanks to liberals and weak willed Republicans (not necessarily mutually exclusive sets) in Congress in '05, because they hated W. Bush more than loved their country. So, Joe can be as happy as he wants, he's going to slave all his life to put food on his table. Maybe if Joe votes steadily for Liberal Democrats, he might be able to euthanize daddy and afford to retire after all!

[quote]He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.[/quote]
We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives.

Even so, there is no such thing as "pure evil" - they did remove Prohibition.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Dismas

[Paddington]

Wowsers!

[Norseman82]

But when Joe finally gets home, he is fatally attacked by the newly married lesbian couple down the street that runs the local abortion clinic and who have gotten grants for embryonic stem cell research. Joe was unable to defend himself because of the local anti-gun ordinance. At the trial, the lesbian couple is acquitted because they heard that Joe's veterinarian's mechanic's acupuncturist's gardener's webmaster once ate foie gras, thus causing emotional distress justifying the murder because the "state had failed them". The pastor of Joe's parish was issued a gag order to not preach about this from the pulpit and was ordered to offer free advertising in the parish bulletin to the abortion clinic. Joe's son's were taken away to live on a hippie commune where they were not allowed to finish out their football and hockey seasons because some university professor felt that those sports were "too violent" even with protective padding, but instead were forced to paint their toenails in the "rainbow flag" colors, listen to "diversity seminars" where they learned that straight males were the source of all the world's problems, wear sandals, and forced to take part in Critical Mass bike protests, because the lesbian's electrician's therapists petitioned the court that it was in the son's "best interests".

Edited August 18, 2007 by Norseman82

[Jaime]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1361965' date='Aug 18 2007, 03:24 PM']But when Joe finally gets home, he is fatally attacked by the newly married lesbian couple down the street that runs the local abortion clinic and who have gotten grants for embryonic stem cell research. Joe was unable to defend himself because of the local anti-gun ordinance. At the trial, the lesbian couple is acquitted because they heard that Joe's veterinarian's mechanic's acupuncturist's gardener's webmaster once ate foie gras, thus causing emotional distress justifying the murder because the "state had failed them". The pastor of Joe's parish was issued a gag order to not preach about this from the pulpit and was ordered to offer free advertising in the parish bulletin to the abortion clinic. Joe's son's were taken away to live on a hippie commune where they were not allowed to finish out their football and hockey seasons because some university professor felt that those sports were "too violent" even with protective padding, but instead were forced to paint their toenails in the "rainbow flag" colors, listen to "diversity seminars" where they learned that straight males were the source of all the world's problems, wear sandals, and forced to take part in Critical Mass bike protests, because the lesbian's electrician's therapists petitioned the court that it was in the son's "best interests".[/quote]

I really didn't think anyone could come up with a dumber post than Dairy's (usually I'm a fan Dairy don't take it personally)

Then I read this

[Socrates]

Ah yes, nothing like "cute" polemical stories to convince us of the truth of a political position.

Anyway, here's the parallel story of Average Joe Liberal.
(Personally, I think it's funnier, and at least as instructive and enlightening, but then again I have a bias.)

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee, which was the product of the cruel neo-imperalist exploitation of third-world native workers by an Evil Capitalist Mega-corporation. This corporation's greed, spurred by Republican tax-cuts, had led to the wholesale destruction and rape of our Planet's irreplacable virgin tropical Rainforests for the creation of coffee plantations to fuel the demand of American capitalist's instable greed and allow them to sell coffee ground cheap to suburbanite American liberals like Joe.

Joe pays $10.00 of his medications because evil conservatives in the government refused to completely socialize medicine, and they will still not pay totally for Joe's girlfriend's abortion, thanks to those religious fascists in the Bush admistration. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is the gruesome result of the cruel murder of a helpless pig by an Evil Capitalist Factory-Farm, which unscupulously capitalizes on the insatiable greed of Americans for the scorched flesh of murdered non-human animals. His eggs were stolen by a similar agricultural conglomerate from exploited captive chickens, living in conditions comparable to Nazi concentration camps. Somehow, Joe allows his unthinking gluttony to overcome his bleeding heart concern for all living creatures (other than unborn humans and conservative right-wing fascists, of course).

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His shampoo was developed by unscrupulous greedy capitalists exploiting media-enforced decadent western standards of "hygiene," who had cruelly tested the product on helpless non-human animal subjects. Joe dresses (conforming to puritanical and outdated religious-right standards of "modesty" and "decency," those fascists not allowing him to freely prance about nude in public as he desires), walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air; before tree-hugging liberals no one could breathe. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which was paid for at the considerable expense of tax-paying citizens like Joe, who prefers to ride a bicycle to work anyway.

Joe begins his work day; he is a wage-slave (albeit well-compensated) for some greedy Evil Capitalist Corporation, which has benefitted from tax-cuts from its Evil Republican cronies in the government. These tax cuts have allowed the Evil Corporation to profit unjustly, allowing them to afford to grow and hire wage-slaves like Joe and compensate them extravagantly for selling-out, rather than letting them live on government subsidies instead. Much as this capitalist selling-out pains Joe's bleeding heart, he was forced into this life of oppression because those fascist right-wingers in the government failed to adequately subsidize Joe's calling as a full-time anti-Bush protest performance artist.

Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is in the greedy hands of Evil Capitalist Bankers, rather than being cared for by a socialist government autonomous collective.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because he is exploited by these Evil Capitalists' greed when the government should ensure equal free housing and education for all citizens free of charge. He pays his mortgage because, despite his best bleeding-heart impulses, he has somehow allowed himself to get suckered by the Greedy Capitalist Land Developers into the whole abominable outmoded feudal concept of "private property ownership" - built on the absurdly hubristic conceit that a human being can actually "own" a piece of Mother Earth. An ancient ecosystem was cruelly raped to make way for Joe's McMansion on a plot of land which was stolen from the peaceful communal Native Americans by Evil Dead White European Males, and sold for base profit. Joe would be much better happier playing bongos in a communal forest village of government-subsidized teepees.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his biological father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is the product of yet another exploitative Evil Capitalist Corporation, and his drive will burn much greenhouse gases, doing irreperable harm to the environment, and causing Greedy Big Oil Corporations to unfairly profit. At least he is able to use this gas-guzzling monstrosity as a billboard for an impressive array of anti-Bush and anti-Christian bumper-stickers.
He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house because the liberals didn't raise inheritance taxes enough. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification, because people are too stupid to do anything without socialist government enforcing it.

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad is still alive because those Religious Fascists in the government wouldn't allow Joe to ensure his humane euthanization. After his visit with dad, he gets back in his fossil-fuel emitting, environment-raping car for the ride home, and thus contributes even more to global warming.

He turns on NPR, and the hosts keep saying that conservatives are bad and liberals are good, and that unless more tax money is raised to subsidize NPR, and the "Hush Rush" bill is passed, the Fascists will destroy us all. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved liberals have fought to raise taxes ever higher until the economy Joe benefits from will collapse) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those right-wing fascists ruining our lives; after all, I’m a helpless wuss who believes no one can do anything without massive socialist government intervention."

Edited August 19, 2007 by Socrates

[Jaime]

See how its done Norseman?

(Holy carp did I just back up Socrates?)

[dairygirl4u2c]

hey i'll concede the conservative spin has much legitimacy to it. i don't think many conservatives (the ones who seem to follow everything they are suppose to to be conservative) would admit that the liberal spin has any legitimacy.

[adt6247]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1364280' date='Aug 20 2007, 11:52 AM']hey i'll concede the conservative spin has much legitimacy to it. i don't think many conservatives (the ones who seem to follow everything they are suppose to to be conservative) would admit that the liberal spin has any legitimacy.[/quote]
Maybe some of us don't think that anyone owes us any of the benefits you tout? Maybe we'd rather live in a world without mandatory healthcare by employers, without the FDA, without social security, the existence of the federeal reserve, the existence of public education, the existence of usurious loans, etc.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i couldn't tell if you were joking or not. but i'm pretty sure you're serious.

the things like minimum wage and other things I see as a matter of justice they should be had. many things are not justice, but just things that people agree we should have. like maybe president's day. i can see not agreeing with many of these things. but to not want the FDA, while not a matter of right and justice per se, is insane, in my opinion. it has it's faults but the alternative is....

also, usurious loans being banned is only possible through liberals. then, some conservatives like to impos their morals, so that might be possibe. the reason i say conservatives wouldn't is because that involves government intervention, which is bad to conservative often, to libertarians. perhaps that is an issue that could go either way. libertarians are often both liberla nad conservative tending anyway, often disagreeing on moral issues and government involvement.

[Dismas]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1364436' date='Aug 20 2007, 03:10 PM']also, usurious loans being banned is only possible through liberals. then, some conservatives like to impos their morals, so that might be possibe. the reason i say conservatives wouldn't is because that involves government intervention, which is bad to conservative often, to libertarians. perhaps that is an issue that could go either way. libertarians are often both liberla nad conservative tending anyway, often disagreeing on moral issues and government involvement.[/quote]

Libertarians would be dead set against outlawing usury.

Conservatives and liberals would likely be split.

You could probably get authoritarians/populists to sign on to such legislation.

[adt6247]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1364436' date='Aug 20 2007, 04:10 PM']i couldn't tell if you were joking or not. but i'm pretty sure you're serious.[/quote]
I most certainly am.

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1364436' date='Aug 20 2007, 04:10 PM']the things like minimum wage and other things I see as a matter of justice they should be had. many things are not justice, but just things that people agree we should have. like maybe president's day. i can see not agreeing with many of these things. but to not want the FDA, while not a matter of right and justice per se, is insane, in my opinion. it has it's faults but the alternative is....[/quote]
The concept of a minimum wage is unjust. It is nothing more than a method of creating inflation, and an authoritarian mechanism robbing both the worker and the employer from negotiating a fair wage. If someone willingly works for a wage that is willingly paid by the employer, both parties are better off than if they did not contract services for a wage. Otherwise, the work never would have took place.

The FDA is Nazi-esque. They do not allow potentially life-saving drugs onto the market for years, yet certify contraceptive pills and abortion pills for political reasons, even though they have more harmful effects to women, babies, and the environment than a number of banned cancer treatments. Plus, they create a hostile environment for pharmaceutical companies that makes it difficult for them to profit from their research.

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1364436' date='Aug 20 2007, 04:10 PM']also, usurious loans being banned is only possible through liberals. then, some conservatives like to impos their morals, so that might be possibe. the reason i say conservatives wouldn't is because that involves government intervention, which is bad to conservative often, to libertarians. perhaps that is an issue that could go either way. libertarians are often both liberla nad conservative tending anyway, often disagreeing on moral issues and government involvement.[/quote]
I never said I wanted usury banned; my statement was that I don't want access to usurious loans. You mentioned that liberals made cheap loans more available. Frankly, all that has done is driven up housing prices artificially by increasing everyone's buying power.