Pray To Allah, Dutch Bishop Suggests

[reyb]

This is another off topic post please excuse me.

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1361813' date='Aug 18 2007, 10:14 AM']Of course we can attain it. Many saints (and many who aren't canonized) were not sinless, but they came to imitate Christ in ways that only God's grace could make possible. Of course, part of drawing closer to Christ is realizing all the ways that we fail to imitate him. I don't know if one could admit they are "like" Jesus. Perhaps only under the condition of that likeness coming only from God's grace.

More importantly, all believers will become like Jesus after he comes to restore the new Creation.[/quote]

[indent]I am willing to discuss this with you in some other time but not here (because we are off topic in this thread).[/indent]
[indent]Phatmassers, thank you.[/indent]

[dairygirl4u2c]

i thought the pope said we worship the same God. if apotheon says we don't, then i seriously question that.
i do note that raphael said that we do, and he's up there in reputability.

if the CC says we do, it'd really be putting your money where your mouth is by referring to God as Allah. not that it's a necessary logical progression, as it could be argued to be watering down the true religion to appease others. or it could be looked at as being accomodating.
it all depends on how you look at it.


it seems like it'd help if people started showing whether popes say we worship the same God. then getting into the technical details of its infallibility, cause some conservatives won't buy it unless you force them to.
but, it does apparently given socs post come down to accomodating v. appeasement.
just depends on how you look at it.

[reyb]

[quote name='reyb' post='1361788' date='Aug 18 2007, 09:38 AM'][indent]All of you are correct according to your own conviction. But, please be careful on this 'Muhammad is not a prophet'.

Just a reminder. It is written in 1 Cor 10:12

12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall[/indent][/quote]


[quote name='Akalyte' post='1361789' date='Aug 18 2007, 09:40 AM']i wouldnt pray to their moon god if they put a gun to my head.[/quote]

[indent]When I please you regarding Prophet Muhammad, I am not saying be careful to any muslim who might harm you but, be careful on discrediting Prophet Muhammad in a very casual manner.

Just for info and please read it carefully And tell me if Muhammad is not a disiciple.[/indent]
[indent][color="#FF0000"]Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal. [/color]
[color="#FF0000"]It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). [/color]
From Sura 3, The Family of Imran, Holy Quran.[/indent]

[Akalyte]

[quote name='reyb' post='1362649' date='Aug 19 2007, 06:30 AM'][indent]When I please you regarding Prophet Muhammad, I am not saying be careful to any muslim who might harm you but, be careful on discrediting Prophet Muhammad in a very casual manner.

Just for info and please read it carefully And tell me if Muhammad is not a disiciple.[/indent]
[indent][color="#FF0000"]Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal. [/color]
[color="#FF0000"]It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). [/color]
From Sura 3, The Family of Imran, Holy Quran.[/indent][/quote]

i believe in the gospel according to the Catholic Church, not that war manual also known as the Kuran.

[Apotheoun]

Muhammad is not a prophet because his "revelation" contradicts the revelation of God given in Christ. As I have already said, he denies explicitly -- in both the Qur'an and the Hadith -- that God would ever beget a Son, which clearly contradicts the teaching of the New Testament.

Muhammad is one of the great deceivers, who -- by his lies -- has caused millions of people to go astray.

[Paddington]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1363121' date='Aug 19 2007, 07:18 PM']Muhammad is one of the great deceivers, who -- by his lies -- has caused millions of people to go astray.[/quote]

Do you think there is any merit to the belief that Mohammed had temporal lobe epilepsy?

[Apotheoun]

To prove that hypothesis an autopsy on his body would have to be performed, because only a medical examination could determine with any scientific accuracy whether or not he actually suffered from that ailment, or from any other neurological or physical illness for that matter, and his body is not available.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1363251' date='Aug 19 2007, 04:50 PM']To prove that hypothesis an autopsy on his body would have to be performed, because only a medical examination could determine with any scientific accuracy whether or not he actually suffered from that ailment, or from any other neurological or physical illness for that matter, and his body is not available.[/quote]

What happened to Mohammed's body?

[Apotheoun]

If my memory serves me, Muhammad was buried in his own home, which now serves as a Mosque.

[Resurrexi]

But that means that if the Mohammedans permitted an autopsy to be done it could...

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1363274' date='Aug 19 2007, 04:03 PM']But that means that if the Mohammedans permitted an autopsy to be done it could...[/quote]
It would never be permitted, and I doubt his brain still exists.

[Resurrexi]

If some scientists stole the corpse and did an autopsy would the remains which still exist be good for any information?

[Apotheoun]

I do not think so. I believe a scientist would need access to brain cells in order to determine whether or not he suffered from epilepsy.

You would need to talk to a pathologist to be sure.

[Apotheoun]

In February my doctor was unable to diagnose the cause of the tremors that had developed on the left side of my body, and so I was sent to a neurologist, and he had a brain scan and a lumbar puncture done, and it was not until after the final test results on the spinal fluid came back that he was able to determine the cause.

[reyb]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1363121' date='Aug 19 2007, 04:48 PM']Muhammad is not a prophet because his "revelation" contradicts the revelation of God given in Christ. As I have already said, he denies explicitly -- in both the Qur'an and the Hadith -- that God would ever beget a Son, which clearly contradicts the teaching of the New Testament.

Muhammad is one of the great deceivers, who -- by his lies -- has caused millions of people to go astray.[/quote]


[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1363281' date='Aug 19 2007, 06:10 PM']I do not think so. I believe a scientist would need access to brain cells in order to determine whether or not he suffered from epilepsy.

You would need to talk to a pathologist to be sure.[/quote]
[indent]Muhammad suffered ‘epilepsy’? Well, Paul said in Gal 4:13 ‘[color="#FF0000"]As you know, it was because of an ‘illness’ that I first preached the gospel to you[/color].’ Do you know what is that ‘illness’ referring to? What a coincidence if both of them are ‘epileptic’.

It is your conviction not to accept Muhammad as a prophet and I do not expect you, much more to force anybody to do it. But what I am just saying is ‘be careful’ because it is written in Surah 043:61-64 (Ornaments of Gold, Holy Quran)

[color="#FF0000"]And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way. Let not the Evil One hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed. When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me." "For Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord: so worship ye Him: this is a Straight Way." [/color][/indent]

[indent]Give your best shot, brother. [/indent]