Pray To Allah, Dutch Bishop Suggests

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1361831' date='Aug 18 2007, 09:09 AM']It is surely a great sorrow to Arab Christians and cultural Arabs like me (who wear Arab dress) that our costume makes us less holy than the Almighty Americans and their superior fashion sense.

Just the (sarcastic) opinion of a resident rag-head.

This is the kind of prejudice that quite literally reduces me to tears. I think this marks the end of my participation in the debate table.[/quote]
This post -- and any others related to it -- is off topic. The topic of this thread is whether non-Arab speaking Christians should start using the Arabic word "Allah"; instead of the word for "God" in their own language during prayer.

God bless,
Todd

[cathoholic_anonymous]

'Rag-head' and words like it may sound off-topic to you.

Tell me, if Akalyte had decided to refer to 'nice black men' or some other word derogatory to black people, would it still be 'off-topic'? How about if he had chosen an anti-Jewish word?

You can learn a lot about people and their opinions from the kind of language that they use. Is it OK to refer to people rag-heads in this debate forum, as long as it's 'on topic'?

EDIT: Ironically, my point has just been reinforced. The forum will not allow the use of the word n*i*g*g*e*r. That's taboo. No one would dream of using an insulting word like that. But 'rag-head', presumably, is all right.

No. It's not all right.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[cmotherofpirl]

Just because yunz can't see see other peoples warning levels doesn't mean they are not adjusted upward for name-calling. It helps if someone actually REPORTS stuff instead of just getting annoyed.

Ragheads is not an acceptable term at phatmass. End of that discussion, and back to our regularly scheduled topic.

[Apotheoun]

The topic of the thread is whether or not non-Arab speaking Christians should use an Arabic term to address God in prayer.

Now, as far as the use of the term "rag-head" is concerned, of course a debate on the use of that term is off topic. Moreover, derogatory terms in general should not become the focus of this or any other thread; instead, when an offensive term is used in a post, the post in question should be reported to the moderators so that they can take the appropriate actions based upon the rules of the forum.

God bless,
Todd
`
P.S. - If you continue to bring up issues unrelated to the actual topic of this thread, I will report your posts to the moderators.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1361839' date='Aug 18 2007, 09:27 AM']Just because yunz can't see see other peoples warning levels doesn't mean they are not adjusted upward for name-calling. It helps if someone actually REPORTS stuff instead of just getting annoyed.

Ragheads is not an acceptable term at phatmass. End of that discussion, and back to our regularly scheduled topic.[/quote]
Thank you.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1361839' date='Aug 18 2007, 05:27 PM']Just because yunz can't see see other peoples warning levels doesn't mean they are not adjusted upward for name-calling. It helps if someone actually REPORTS stuff instead of just getting annoyed.

Ragheads is not an acceptable term at phatmass. End of that discussion, and back to our regularly scheduled topic.[/quote]

Cmum, it is difficult to keep cool-headed and think of sensible things like reporting a person when without warning you come across a word with that kind of connotation in a place where you wouldn't expect to find it. I doubt anyone on here quite realises how that word sounds to Arab ears, and it gave me a nasty jolt.

That said, I apologise for not following protocol.

Edited August 18, 2007 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Apotheoun]

It is better to report offensive posts, rather than respond to them.



God bless,
Todd

[reyb]

[indent]I really cannot imagine how bishop (I forgot his name, sorry), will ever heed the Pope in his request regarding ‘Allah’. You are all Catholics. Isn’t it? But still, what is the difference between the word ‘God’ and ‘Allah’?[/indent]

[bonoducchi]

If someone had called a priest a "boy-lover" that would have sparked massive outcry by everyone here and mods wouldn't have cared less.

Curious how we won't defend people with courage to speak out against American arrogance and Anglo-centrism.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1361859' date='Aug 18 2007, 01:01 PM']If someone had called a priest a "boy-lover" that would have sparked massive outcry by everyone here and mods wouldn't have cared less.

Curious how we won't defend people with courage to speak out against American arrogance and Anglo-centrism.[/quote]
yes, if it had been reported.

[Apotheoun]

Just a reminder: the topic of this thread is whether or not non-Arabic speaking Christians should use the Arabic word "Allah" when praying to God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1361859' date='Aug 18 2007, 01:01 PM']If someone had called a priest a "boy-lover" that would have sparked massive outcry by everyone here and mods wouldn't have cared less.

Curious how we won't defend people with courage to speak out against American arrogance and Anglo-centrism.[/quote]


Excuse me?????
TRUTH is always defended, rudeness is not.
Get back to the topic please.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1361797' date='Aug 18 2007, 09:47 AM']So. Just asking.
Have many of you have placed an order for dUSt's "Respect your Bishop" shirt?
I'm not saying, just wondering....[/quote]

I didn't order one, but that's only because I think it looks like a chess club t-shirt.

[Socrates]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1360415' date='Aug 16 2007, 06:13 PM']Goodness me, someone posted a news story about something 'bad' in Europe and the USA-centric contingent of Phatmass jumps on like a pack of wolves. At least you're all consistent, I suppose.

When I pray in English, I say 'God' in (presumably) the same way you Americans do. When I pray in Dutch, I say 'God' in Dutch. If I spoke Maltese I'm sure I would address God as Allah, just as it's written in my Maltese Missal. Get over your linguistic imperialism.

Mgr. Muskens (we address our Bishops as "Mgr." here) has a reputation for being, shall we say, [i]interesting[/i]. His coadjutor Bishop, Mgr. van den Hende, was Vicar General of my present diocese. He's a super guy, solid enough even for the Americans on this forum (SHOCK!!! Hehe, yes, I know it might be hard for you all to imagine, but it's perfectly possible - it's just that you lot don't bother to learn Dutch and thus don't read the better part of the stuff that happens here) and he's good news for Breda - although we were seriously gutted that he had to leave us! Our diocesan contingent PACKED out the cathedral down there at his Ordination

A further point is that of translation - Netwerk as a programme is generally a bit way out even for my taste. However, unless CWN has a decent Dutch translation team as opposed to relying on Netwerk's English version ("English" on tv here is quite the giggle sometimes), it wouldn't surprise me if there were some nuances that escaped.

Here's a challenge for you all - find three positive reports about the Church in Europe, preferably not in English, and bring them to Phatmass' attention. Can you bring yourselves to do that?[/quote]
Quite frankly, I find your reaction a bit ridiculous (as is the five pages of bickering over this topic).
The reaction to Bishop Muskens' suggestion here has nothing to do with the fact that he's Dutch or European.
I'm sure people would be equally upset if the Bishop had been American, or from any other part of the world.
(And apparently, you've missed the controversy which has flaired up on here concerning Los Angeles' own Cardinal Mahoney - a man whom I find more despicable than this liberal Dutchman.)
While we have some good bishops, I am overall not happy with the American Bishops as a group, patriotic American though I be. If an American bishop had suggested we American Catholics start calling God "Allah" I would be just as unhappy, perhaps more so, as this would be occuring on "home turf."
Your treating this like a declaration of war on Holland comes off as silly and petulant.

My problem is not that I believe there is anything inherantly evil about calling God "Allah" - this term may be perfectly acceptable for Arabic-speaking Christians - but the fact that Bishop Muskens was doing so as an apparent act of appeasement to Muslims. Non-Arab Catholics should not change their language of worship for the purpose of making it seem more "acceptable" to Muslims. (And it is highly doubtful such a change in language would have the desired effect.) It seems we have enough trouble simply maintaining our own traditions of Catholic worship without this silly "ecumenical" garbage to try to make our Faith seem more like everyone else's religion.
And this bishop's dissidence regarding contraception shows him to be less than a stalwart defender of Catholic orthodoxy.

[Socrates]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1361811' date='Aug 18 2007, 09:10 AM']I don't think it would make any suicide bombers happy - we, a bunch of heathen scum worth less than pigs, suddenly claiming we worship the same God? Outrageous!

It probably wouldn't make the terrorists who fight (or, as it seems now, to our joy, fought) in the name of Catholicism happy either.

The people who would make it happy are probably the same people who like to call God "Father, Mother, Bringer of Life", and other neo-hippie stuff. So I'm not for it. But I don't see a reason to be so wildly against it, either, especially since it was suggested by a bishop.[/quote]
I agree generally. I see no reason this would be a good idea, suggested by a bishop or no.

And what's this about "terrorists who fight in the name of Catholicism"??
Somehow I seem to have missed all the stories about Catholic suicide-bombers.

But what do I know? I'm just an ignorant, knuckle-draggin' troglodyte conservative.