Ufos, Demonology, And The Occult

[Guest]

its crazy how God is outside of time and told us about all of this before it would happen............

i would encourage you to read revelations..........

i am not saying that what you are saying is false.......i actually think it might happen........i really do....

and i think this technology and whoever speaks through it is gonna tell you Christ didnt raise from the dead and die for your sins............

and if you chooze to belive that.....its on you.......even the ellect will be fooled.......the mark of the beast.....inserted in their forehead...........

again...my prayers are with you because like you...i was without no faith...zilch...none...in Christ or his church......you said you were catholic.....so we have alot in common........i was born catholic....lost my faith complety about 17 years into it.....

the bible refers to people with this midset specifically..........antichrist........
one who does not belive that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and died on a cross and rose from the dead...........

now there will be one GIANT MAIN ANTICHRIST........he will fool the wholeeeeeee worlddddddddd.....who's to say he wont come in a spaceship......heck the bible says he will make lighting come down from the sky.......and i also guarentee you one other thing.....he wont be saying Jesus Christ is GOD AND SINLESS AND RAISED FROM THE DEAD........nope........revelations tells us that.................and man......its past the year 2000.....Christ is gonna be here before you know it.......and this antichrist has to come first................

let me warn you.......blasphemy against the holy spirt is the one unforgiveable sin.......that sin is attributeing to the devil what is of the holy spirt..........you were catholic....you used to believe in Christ for your salvation.....brother your in a dangerous spot.....your on a catholic website saying that God and his only son Jesus Christ really arent who they claim to be.........your attribueting to what happened to moses and others of the old testement as a god looking to deceive them........that is very dangerous my friend....please think it over and pray......Godbless

Edited August 16, 2007 by Guest

[Justin86]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1358214' date='Aug 14 2007, 05:23 AM']Looks like a really big-headed cat.[/quote]
Looks like that guy I saw the last time I was blown' bong. Creepy.....

[abercius24]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1359350' date='Aug 15 2007, 04:11 PM']i expercienced some of this first hand.......

the deeper you get into the occult the more you lose your faith until you have none......

and when you have no faith satan is open to do whatever he wants to you......

since you can nolonger call on God........

thats why faith is so imortant........it protects you from demonic attacks from satan.......[/quote]

Amen to that.

[saint_wannabe]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1359795' date='Aug 15 2007, 10:29 PM']Looks like that guy I saw the last time I was blown' bong. Creepy.....[/quote]

drugs = bad

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='saint_wannabe' post='1360042' date='Aug 16 2007, 08:24 AM']drugs = bad[/quote]

Justin's example of what happens is a prime example of just how bad drugs are.

[FattyBones]

"segregated, confused, and faithful"

First, a leap of logic: faith is the condition of not being confused. If you are confused, it is because you have little faith. That is not preaching, you can derive this from the meaning of the words. Faith = to beleive something with certainty. Confused = to not know what to believe.

Segregated maybe, but also charitable, moral, and hopeful and victorious during adversity. Judaism is one of the oldest religions in the world (Abraham was circumcised with a sharp stone, not a bronze knife -- that's how old.) and Christians dominate the world, economically and militarily (if that's a word). Muslims, who worship the same God, control the oil, and used to control the trade routes, also, they are maybe the fastest growing religion in the world.

---------

I have experimented with the occult, and with drugs, and I'd feel derelict in my Christian duty if I didn't join in saying these were bad. If you want a worst-case scenario, read any protestant fundamentalist site. Every time you seek an occult power, or invite an occult being to you, you are calling a demon.

There is an old Irish story about a pagan king who's family was Christian. He fell in love with a fairy who hated him for whatever reason (I think his army took their land or something, not the point). She said she'd "be with him" if he'd get all the Christians out of the house first. He does, and she is able to use her powers finally to the fullest, and causes the house to burn and hellhounds to attack him, and he and his pagan bodyguards die.

That's basically the point of the occult from the demonic perspective. It gets you away from God, where you are vulnerable to attack. Whether your fellow pagans do the attacking, or the devil does directly, either way you're screwed. One of the many benefits of God is that He protects you from magic and the devil. (He also protects against illness and other misfortunes if you ask Him to, that's a major reason why people pray.)

Occultists often use drugs to get in touch with the spirit world. The spirit world is not a place you want to be, for reasons stated above. Drugs mess up your reasoning skills, which leads you to do bad things out of stupidity.

As far as Aliens, I'd buy that they're demons. If they aren't real they are a lie, and who is the father of lies again? If they are real, i'm judging by the anal probing that they are obviously evil.

[carrdero]

[quote]Fatty Bones writes: First, a leap of logic: faith is the condition of not being confused. If you are confused, it is because you have little faith.[/quote]
If one is confused it is because one does not have enough understanding. When one does not have understanding, one requires knowledge not fatih.

[quote]Fatty Bones writes That is not preaching, you can derive this from the meaning of the words. Faith = to beleive something with certainty. Confused = to not know what to believe.[/quote]
And when the hope and expectancy of a certain belief that has become faithful is proven false and incorrect where does this leave one? Disappointed and once again confused. Faith is neither trust or Truth and if one cannot rely on it, why practice it? Is not the concept and conclusion of the core belief enough?

[quote]Fatty Bones writes: Segregated maybe, but also charitable, moral, and hopeful and victorious during adversity.[/quote]
One does not need faith or to belong to a group to become charitable or moral.
[quote]Fatty Bones writes: I have experimented with the occult, and with drugs, and I'd feel derelict in my Christian duty if I didn't join in saying these were bad. If you want a worst-case scenario, read any protestant fundamentalist site. Every time you seek an occult power, or invite an occult being to you, you are calling a demon.[/quote]

There is really no evidence that drugs and the occult are used by the entities perpetrating the UFO phenomenon.

[quote]Fatty Bones writes: There is an old Irish story about a pagan king who's family was Christian. He fell in love with a fairy who hated him for whatever reason (I think his army took their land or something, not the point). She said she'd "be with him" if he'd get all the Christians out of the house first. He does, and she is able to use her powers finally to the fullest, and causes the house to burn and hellhounds to attack him, and he and his pagan bodyguards die.

That's basically the point of the occult from the demonic perspective. It gets you away from God, where you are vulnerable to attack. Whether your fellow pagans do the attacking, or the devil does directly, either way you're screwed. One of the many benefits of God is that He protects you from magic and the devil. (He also protects against illness and other misfortunes if you ask Him to, that's a major reason why people pray.)

Occultists often use drugs to get in touch with the spirit world. The spirit world is not a place you want to be, for reasons stated above. Drugs mess up your reasoning skills, which leads you to do bad things out of stupidity.

As far as Aliens, I'd buy that they're demons. If they aren't real they are a lie, and who is the father of lies again? If they are real, i'm judging by the anal probing that they are obviously evil.[/quote]
If it is evil we are trying to discern.


[color="#000080"]Exodus
15:6
22:24
32:35
Leviticus
14:34
26:16-39

Numbers
16:46 And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a censer, and put fire therein from off the altar, and put on incense, and go quickly unto the congregation, and make an atonement for them: for there is wrath gone out from the LORD; the plague is begun.
16:47 And Aaron took as Moses commanded, and ran into the midst of the congregation; and, behold, the plague was begun among the people: and he put on incense, and made an atonement for the people.
16:48 And he stood between the dead and the living; and the plague was stayed.
16:49 [b][i]Now they that died in the plague were fourteen thousand and seven hundred[/i][/b], beside them that died about the matter of Korah.[/color]

I can’t speak for everyone, but I would likely prefer the anal probe.

Edited August 17, 2007 by carrdero

[FattyBones]

I would prefer not to be enslaved by the Egyptians. The plagues were justified retaliation. And that story is evidence for believers being victorious in adversity, is it not? Faith in itself is not necessarily good: the egyptians had faith in Ra. Believers in the God of Abraham have many observable advantages throughout history. Pagans have what? Fireworks, consumer electronics and a really cool way of fistfighting. People who beleive in God control the money and weapons. As your chosen story shows, having the wrong beleifs can be fatal.

You will not be disappointed if you have faith in something that is true. I have a lot of evidence for my beliefs, in the form of logical arguments and answered prayers. I doubt that my faith is misplaced.

People who have faith are not confused. The word confused denotes the condition of not knowing what to believe. Even if you are faithful to a wrong idea, you are still not confused.

It is true you don't need religion to be moral, but it helps alot.

The fact that drugs screw with you was not meant as evidence for UFO=demon, it was just a warning to those thinking of taking up the habit. But, many UFO people are involved in the occult. They meditate in crop circles and channel aliens.

Why don't you post your beleifs, so I can play devils advocate too? That might be fairer.

Edited August 18, 2007 by FattyBones

[jeffpugh]

Good call, FattyBones. I hope you don't mind if I try and get a foothold in this argument, too? You seem to be holding your end pretty well, though.

[carrdero]

[quote]FattyBones writes: I would prefer not to be enslaved by the Egyptians.[/quote]
It is difficult for me to understand the kind of life the Isrealites must have led during their enslavement but I do not see the alternative that they were offered to be that different.
[quote]FattyBones writes: The plagues were justified retaliation.[/quote]
I’m not quite sure how to respond to this.
[quote]FattyBones writes:And that story is evidence for believers being victorious in adversity, is it not?[/quote]
It is a tale of “out of the frying pan, into the fire”. The Isrealites just traded one powerful god for a more powerful, more wrathful God. A clear example of the Stockholm Syndrome. This "victory" cost too many lives, (some of them innocent) and lasted for 40 years with absolutely no favorable outcome for Moses. This situation could have been handled more considerately and more efficiently from an Almighty Being claiming omnipotence.
[quote]FattyBones writes: Believers in the God of Abraham have many observable advantages throughout history.[/quote]
Yes but many have not had the dubious honor of being asked by a Supreme Being to murder their son as a sacrificial offering.
[quote]FattyBones writes:As your chosen story shows, having the wrong beleifs can be fatal.[/quote]
As my story shows there is no choice or freedom that comes with that kind of believing and it is a familiar story; obey or die. Even with this "self-proclaimed god" continually in their sight, many followers of Moses remained unconvinced. I would suspect that this was in the way that this "god" behaved and not because of the believing capacities of what the Isrealites expected or hoped how a Loving benevolent Being would react. In other words it was a belief based on fear, not Love.
[quote]FattyBones writes: The fact that drugs screw with you was not meant as evidence for UFO=demon, it was just a warning to those thinking of taking up the habit.[/quote]
And this is good advice. I do not know how many young Phatmass members there are compared to the older generation but this is not a good habit for any Christian to consider no matter one’s age. I am just glad there are a few members available to share their experinces.
[quote]FattyBones writes: But, many UFO people are involved in the occult.[/quote]
You are most likely thinking of the “contactees”.

[b]Contactees differ somewhat from abductees in that:[/b]

Contactees usually are accepting of their situation and go willingly along with the entities.

Contactees do not have to physically see UFOs or any entities to still receive messages from sources claiming to be other-worldly.

Contactees usually feel they have been chosen, mostly claiming to be spiritually enlightened or altered by the experience. They usually consciously remember the prophetic messages and predictions for humankind that the entities have given them.

[b]Abductees differ somewhat from contactees:[/b]

Abductees do not embrace their visitations. The experience is terrifying for them and they feel more like victims. They are traumatized from their experience as opposed to feeling spiritually enlightened. They do not welcome repeated visitations.

Abductees’ captors do not inform them well, many are not given any information or prophetic messages or future predictions. If any conversation takes place it is usually suppressed with the experience and comes out through hypnotic prompting.

Abductees do not want the recognition, they shy away from the media and other people and usually withdraw within themselves until something triggers the memory or they seek professional assistance.
[quote]FattyBones writes:They meditate in crop circles and channel aliens.[/quote]

That’s nothing, if you think that is bizarre, I have read and researched some contactees who have actually offered animal sacrifices to these entities and have erected alters and burned incense and built wooden containers covered in gold to carry rocks and rods.
[quote]FattyBones writes: Why don't you post your beleifs, so I can play devils advocate too? That might be fairer.[/quote]
Phatmass doesn’t present too much of an opportunity for me to just list my beleifs which is why most members have only been able to get them in spurts or when these beleifs relate to a specific debate topic but if you are really interested and with your permission, I can send you a link through private messaging.

Edited August 18, 2007 by carrdero

[jeffpugh]

How doesn't phatmass allow you to properly present your beliefs? I'm intently listening. I know others are too.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1362113' date='Aug 18 2007, 05:58 PM']How doesn't phatmass allow you to properly present your beliefs? I'm intently listening. I know others are too.[/quote]
I am not insinuating that my beliefs are suppressed or unwelcomed on Phatmass but that the opportunity and time to present them are limited. If one notices, I try to keep my debates limited to only discussions where I could provide insight of what I know. Most of my other time is spent reading or learning other threads and familiarizing myself with the sight. My other time on Phatmass is spent cruising and contributing to The Open Mic and Muzic, Flicks and Media Lounge threads.

[Guest]

u've yet to really respond to me ??
you say you used to be catholic
how did you lose your faith ??
y dont you trust in the lord no more ??
y are you so nieve to believe satan doesnt exist ???
y are you on a catholic website if you have no faith in the lord ???
i pray that you are about to regain your faith
i was where you were
i was in the occult
GOD is good......give him a shot
experience how his love and his assurence for salvation feels....
its the best feeling in the world....Godbless bro

[carrdero]

[quote]Delivery Boy writes: u've yet to really respond to me ??
you say you used to be catholic
how did you lose your faith ??[/quote]
I didn’t misplace my faith, I transferred it for reasoning.
[quote]Delivery Boy writes: y are you so nieve to believe satan doesnt exist ???[/quote]
I think you might have read too much into that.
[quote]Carrdero writes: If I ever actually believed in the existence of a BEing as deceptive as Satan…[/quote]
I am not discounting the belief that a BEIng called Satan exists, I am reasoning the belief that Satan may not be as deceptive as some people understand this BEing to be. When we compare the acts of Satan to other deities in the Bible, no one racks up the body count bigger, better and higher than the BEing called Jehovah. Taunting and temptation from a mischievous imp I can handle but being in the line of a vengeful, wrathful, murderous God doesn’t really afford one any opportunity.
[quote]Delivery Boy writes:y are you on a catholic website if you have no faith in the lord ???[/quote]
I can’t stay away from The Open Mic and The Lame Boards.
[quote]Delivery Boy writes:i pray that you are about to regain your faith[/quote]
My beliefs do not require a support system.
[quote]Delivery Boy writes: i was where you were
i was in the occult[/quote]
I am not in the occult. Most of the researchers who investigate and examine the UFO Phenomenon, who document their findings and publish books to keep interested readers informed are also not occultists.
[quote]Delivery Boy writes: GOD is good......give him a shot
experience how his love and his assurence for salvation feels....
its the best feeling in the world....Godbless bro[/quote]
Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind.

Edited August 19, 2007 by carrdero

[FattyBones]

Out of the frying pan, into the fire? I admit that worshipping God has some apparent disadvantages, but they weren't slaves after they were emancipated -- they wandered in the desert and got free food.

Maybe you don't understand how bad it is to be a slave? Imagine the worst job you ever had, except you work sixteen hours a day, and you don't get paid. Sundays off? Nope. Labour day, Nope. Oh, and sometimes you get beaten and maybe even raped or killed.

Wouldn't you rather wander in the desert and get free food?


Back on topic . . .

As for the alien thing. Aliens scare the heck out of innocent people, then other people contact them looking for occult powers. That's sort of the same track that demons worked on when people believed in them. You haven't said anything to discredit what I said, you just divided UFO people into two groups.

Angel hair is hairy, and manna wasn't. Snow bears just as much resemblence as angel hair does. And, yeah, wierd stuff happens outside religion too. It is only miraculous when it comes from God, with a good purpose. If it comes from nowhere, to no purpose, it's just wierd stuff. If it comes from the other guy and serves a bad purpose, like the alien thing, it is demonic.

You say that you exchanged a belief in God for a belief in reason, but you profess a belief in reincarnation, that aliens are God, that God isn't interested in morality -- to name a few. How does reason guide you to a belief in reincarnation, for example? I'm not making fun, I really want to know. Or are you just playing devil's advocate?

You can PM me if you want, I'll try to figure out how to accept messages in a moment.

Edited August 20, 2007 by FattyBones