Is It Ever Ok To Attend An Sspx Mass?

[Dave]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1359219' date='Aug 15 2007, 01:32 PM']I really doesn't matter what you believe Brendan. The fact is they are outside the Catholic Church by their own sinfully free will.
Why should anyone go to a website sponsered by heretics and read what they have to say is beyond me. The devil is quite good at making himself look good and so is the SSPX. Remember even the Devil can quote scripture...[/quote]

It's St. Benedict you were addressing, not Brendan.

[brendan1104]

That was [u]St. Benedict[/u], cmotherofpirl, not me. I'm NOT SSPX. First "get a life", then "cut the carp", now you're not reading names carefully and assuming it's me. Thanks.

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1359219' date='Aug 15 2007, 10:32 AM']I really doesn't matter what you believe Brendan. The fact is they are outside the Catholic Church by their own sinfully free will.
Why should anyone go to a website sponsered by heretics and read what they have to say is beyond me. The devil is quite good at making himself look good and so is the SSPX. Remember even the Devil can quote scripture...[/quote]

[White Knight]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Aloysius]

It is incorrect to label attenders of SSPX masses as "heretics" or even "schismatics" according to Cardinal Castrillon:

"Please accept that I reject the term "ecumenism ad intra." The bishops, priests and faithful of the Society of St Pius X are not schismatics. It is Archbishop Lefebrve who has undertaken an illicit Episcopal consecration and therefore performed a schismatic act. It is for this reason that the Bishops consecrated by him have been suspended and excommunicated. The priests and faithful of the Society have not been excommunicated. They are not heretics."

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='St. Benedict' post='1359166' date='Aug 15 2007, 09:39 AM'][b]May I post links to videos of their Masses on this forum?[/b][/quote]

Of course. I don't think one is forbidden to post a video of a Greek-Orthodox Divine Liturgy which differs from the Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgies in that it does not pray for the Supreme Pontiff, and therefore, posting a video that differs exteriorly in no way, shape or form from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass of the Forma Extraordinaria said by a priest in good standing with the Holy See would most certainly not be forbidden.


And, BTW, CMom, many of the videos of the Forma Extraordinaria Masses said by priests in good standing with the Holy See found online are not well-filmed as Forma Extraordinaria Masses said by priests of the Society of St. Pius X.

Edited August 16, 2007 by StThomasMore

[abercius24]

[quote name='St. Benedict' post='1358970' date='Aug 14 2007, 10:31 PM']Note: I do not believe SSPX priests are in schism and I do not believe that their bishops are excommunicated. Go to the main website of the SSPX and click on "SSPX FAQs" in the left sidebar. I learned a lot from that site. They quote Canon Law to explain their situation.[/quote]

They deliberately showed disloyalty to the Holy Father and the rest of the Bishops. By their very actions they have separated themselves form unity with the Holy Father. They cannot claim to be members of the Church if they aren't recognized as members by the other Bishops. That's one of the key qualifiers for participating in the Universal and Ordinary Magesterium. Even if Pope had not excommunicated them overtly (which he in fact did), they have excommunicated themselves.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1359833' date='Aug 15 2007, 09:43 PM']They deliberately showed disloyalty to the Holy Father and the rest of the Bishops. By their very actions they have separated themselves form unity with the Holy Father. They cannot claim to be members of the Church if they aren't recognized as members by the other Bishops. That's one of the key qualifiers for participating in the Universal and Ordinary Magesterium. Even if Pope had not excommunicated them overtly (which he in fact did), they have excommunicated themselves.[/quote]

Amen.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1359223' date='Aug 15 2007, 12:33 PM']I don't see why you would, can't you find a Mass by FAITHFUL Catholics???[/quote]

Get off your high horse and stop living arrogantly thinking that only people like you are Faithful! The SSPX is faithful to all Catholic teaching and traditions. Stop this nonsense!

[Moneybags]

Here are the links then to some Masses by SSPX priests:

[url="http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2006/12/video-tridentine-missa-cantata.html"]http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2006/12/...sa-cantata.html[/url]

[url="http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2007/01/video-tridentine-votive-mass-of-blessed.html"]http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2007/01/...of-blessed.html[/url]

[url="http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2007/02/french-tridentine-mass-video.html"]http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2007/02/...mass-video.html[/url]

There are many more but these are some that I enjoyed!!

[Dave]

[quote name='St. Benedict' post='1361114' date='Aug 17 2007, 12:19 PM']Get off your high horse and stop living arrogantly thinking that only people like you are Faithful! The SSPX is faithful to all Catholic teaching and traditions. Stop this nonsense![/quote]

The SSPX rejects some of Vatican II's teachings. That's not very faithful to Catholic teaching or tradition.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='Dave' post='1361120' date='Aug 17 2007, 11:34 AM']The SSPX rejects some of Vatican II's teachings. That's not very faithful to Catholic teaching or tradition.[/quote]

Quote the parts of Vatican II documents to which they are not faithful.

[Era Might]

Bernard Fellay stated recently in an interview:

[b]"And we insist by saying that Vatican II is in disharmony—is in contradiction—is even teaching error opposed to the traditional teaching, especially on ecumenism."[/b]

For those who don't know, he is one of the four men who were illicitly consecrated as Bishops by Marcel Lefebvre and excommunicated under Pope John Paul II:

[quote]In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act. In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.

--Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Letter "Ecclesia Dei"[/quote]

[abercius24]

Okay! The mods have given me approval to post my response. Here it is:

[quote name='brendan1104' post='1351677' date='Aug 6 2007, 10:46 PM']You can go, receive Communion and even contribute at the collection. This is allowed by the Vatican.

Abercius, I'm not SSPX but back your statgement up. Please show me a quote from any society materials which say that - 1) we're going to hell 2) because we follow the pope, and 3) that he's in heresy.[/quote]

May I ask that you be a little more polite in asking for additional references? I believe I deserve a little more respect than your demand conveys.

It is difficult to find materials directly from the SSPX blatantly expressing what I have stated, but they do have auxilliary organizations (made up of SSPX members) that produce such materials with the unofficial blessing of SSPX. The organization is highly propogandized. But I shall do my best to satisfy your request.

Here is an article (more on the milder side) found on the SSPX website that clearly shows their belief that Pope John Paul II was a heretic (note the red-text statement about our current pope's heresy, too):
[url="http://www.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q7_pope.htm"]http://www.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q7_pope.htm[/url]

For an example of their tendancy toward propoganda, compare the previous article (which I only found deep within their website using Google) with their more congenial statement regarding Benedict XVI found on their home page:
[url="http://www.sspx.org"]http://www.sspx.org[/url]

With regards to the validity of the Novus Ordo mass, here is a quote from the SSPX website:
"The dissimulation of Catholic elements and the pandering to Protestants which are evident in the Novus Ordo Missae render it a danger to our faith, and, as such, evil, given that it lacks the good which the sacred rite of Mass ought to have.

"This does not necessarily follow from the above defects, as serious as they might be, for only three things are required for validity (presupposing a validly ordained priest), proper: matter, form, and intention.

"However, the celebrant must intend to do what the Church does. The Novus Ordo Missae will no longer in and of itself guarantee that the celebrant has this intention. That will depend on his personal faith (generally unknown to those assisting, but more and more doubtful as the crisis in the Church is prolonged).

"Therefore, these Masses can be of doubtful validity, and more so with time."
(http://www.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q5_novusordo.htm)

Notice the "double-talk" where they say the Novus Ordo may not be invalid, ... but ... IS EVIL and probably IS INVALID. Now if the official position of the SSPX so blatantly doubts the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass, you can imagine where some of their auxilliary organizations take that line of thinking. Without a valid mass, there is no sanctifying grace to be conferred as part of the Eucharistic Celebration, therefore, Catholics are more LIKELY to go to hell (notice in my previous post I did not say they WOULD go to hell). This mentality is what you will find very common among the members attending an SSPX mass. My point is that such people are not going to be very comfortable with a Catholic who is in-line with Rome.

Here is another quote from an official letter issued by the SSPX demonstrating great fear for the continuation of the Church (because of the Novus Ordo mass), and hence our Salvation: "Let us remind the faithful of the urgency of the combat, and of what is at stake. It is not only the Holy Mass, but the Church itself in her entirety."
([url="http://www.sspx.org/superior_generals_ltrs/supgen_message_sept99.html"]http://www.sspx.org/superior_generals_ltrs...age_sept99.html[/url]) They fear the Holy Father is leading the Church into its own destruction. If the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth, without the Church we would have no Truth, and without Truth, the gospel would have failed this and all following generations. I think that is pretty much a statement that hell is a likely scenario for many Catholics who follow the Holy Father.

I'll try to find some more literature from some of their auxilliary organizations that demonstrate their more unfriendly side. I hope this at least shows you that the SSPX do have a hidden, malicious attitude toward those who are loyal to the Pope.

By the way, you may be a little more friendly by doing some research before you ask me to justify the content of my ADVICE which I have given OUTSIDE of the debate forum. God bless!

Steve S. -- Abercius24
CatholicQandA.com

Edited August 18, 2007 by abercius24

[abercius24]

[quote name='St. Benedict' post='1361128' date='Aug 17 2007, 11:59 AM']Quote the parts of Vatican II documents to which they are not faithful.[/quote]

How about talking smack about the Holy Father and his mission. I think that pretty much qualifies as unfaithful.

[Moneybags]

[quote name='abercius24' post='1361485' date='Aug 17 2007, 09:06 PM']How about talking smack about the Holy Father and his mission. I think that pretty much qualifies as unfaithful.[/quote]

You may disagree with the Holy Father when he is not speaking ex cathedra.