Modesty And Discernment

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Johanna' post='1349347' date='Aug 4 2007, 01:20 PM']My clothing did not really change much. The only thing I pay attention to now is that I do cover my cleavage (which I did most of the time anyway even before). The other thing is that I go to church almost every day now and therefore also cover my shoulders and my knees. On the rare occasions I cannot attend Holy Mass one day [i]and[/i] it is really hot outside, it happens that I wear only a tank top or a skirt that ends just above my knees, but in comparison with other girls around, even that is kind of "modest". And I do wear really tight T-shirts, even to church, and I do prefer them to the loose ones. You can see one I really like here: [url="http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?op=article&article_id=315249&p=1"]My favorite T-shirt[/url]

P.S.: I, too, love ankle-length skirts![/quote]

Oh my! Is that... Is that... a European Catholic webshop? *drops over* I want that shirt!

[Johanna]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1349351' date='Aug 4 2007, 01:57 PM']Oh my! Is that... Is that... a European Catholic webshop? *drops over* I want that shirt![/quote]

Yes, it is. A German one to be accurate.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Johanna' post='1349355' date='Aug 4 2007, 02:09 PM']Yes, it is. A German one to be accurate. [/quote]

Natürlich, natürlich

[LilyofSaintMaria]

Gee, I was just thinking about this and up pops your post. I am only just able to post my response after two pages of posts! I see a couple here, but could you name some clothing stores that deal with strictly modest clothing? Your favorites I mean? That would help! Especially stores that sell modest pants. I know skirts are usually the modest way to go to cover the lower half, but sometimes you can't wear them like in my kind of work, a skirt or dress would be at times immodest and even dangerous. So any suggestions?
Modesty means to cover, but not smother (I guess that might be the right word - it rhymes anyway! ) You are to cover your body so as not to be a source of temptation to others or yourself. And I mean yourself by being frivolous, worried about your looks, giving into peer pressure, etc. You are also God's daughter (& son) so dress neatly and properly. Not with frumpy pants or oversized shirts or bellowing dresses and the same goes with tight pants, low necklines, short/tight shirts, short skirts, sheer clothing, and so on. How important is it for you to dress and act as modestly as possible? Is it a virtue that is different for everyone or like the rest of the virtues there is only one way to develop the good habit?

Since you've wondered about changing to more modest dress during discernment have you also been more conscious of staying (or becoming) fit? Jesus healed both the physically and spiritually ill. What do you do to keep both in balance?
And another thing comes to mind. What do you think about makeup? Is makeup fine to use? If so, how much? In my opinion (although I don't wear any - it would be a waste of time for me in my work) makeup is fine as long as it enhances and doesn't cover or turn one into these black-eyed, purple lip zombies I've seen lately. (I just don't know why that do that!) Anyways, I really would like any thoughts you might have about this.

Thank you!
Bernadette

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='LilyofSaintMaria' post='1350219' date='Aug 5 2007, 01:26 PM']Gee, I was just thinking about this and up pops your post. I am only just able to post my response after two pages of posts! I see a couple here, but could you name some clothing stores that deal with strictly modest clothing? Your favorites I mean? That would help! Especially stores that sell modest pants. I know skirts are usually the modest way to go to cover the lower half, but sometimes you can't wear them like in my kind of work, a skirt or dress would be at times immodest and even dangerous. So any suggestions?
Modesty means to cover, but not smother (I guess that might be the right word - it rhymes anyway! ) You are to cover your body so as not to be a source of temptation to others or yourself. And I mean yourself by being frivolous, worried about your looks, giving into peer pressure, etc. You are also God's daughter (& son) so dress neatly and properly. Not with frumpy pants or oversized shirts or bellowing dresses and the same goes with tight pants, low necklines, short/tight shirts, short skirts, sheer clothing, and so on. How important is it for you to dress and act as modestly as possible? Is it a virtue that is different for everyone or like the rest of the virtues there is only one way to develop the good habit?

Since you've wondered about changing to more modest dress during discernment have you also been more conscious of staying (or becoming) fit? Jesus healed both the physically and spiritually ill. What do you do to keep both in balance?
And another thing comes to mind. What do you think about makeup? Is makeup fine to use? If so, how much? In my opinion (although I don't wear any - it would be a waste of time for me in my work) makeup is fine as long as it enhances and doesn't cover or turn one into these black-eyed, purple lip zombies I've seen lately. (I just don't know why that do that!) Anyways, I really would like any thoughts you might have about this.

Thank you!
Bernadette[/quote]


Hey, Bernadette!

I don't know how old you are, or what kinds of clothes you like to wear, but here is a website that sells more modest pants for people in their teens or twenties:

[url="http://www.gap.com/"]Gap[/url] For some reason, this season Gap has some more modest pants.

I don't know how you feel about shorts, but this Catholic website has long, loose shorts for girls and teens: [url="http://www.upstreamgirl.com/"]Up Stream Girl[/url] They also have skirts, shirts, and dresses---the non-billowy type.

Here is a list of websites that sell women's pants. Since these sites are aimed at pleasing women in over 30, the clothes are a ton more modest than what you'll find at teen stores. A lot of these clothes are not stylish, but maybe that doesn't bother you.

[url="http://www1.talbots.com/talbotsonline/index.aspx"]Talbots[/url]

[url="http://www.llbean.com/"]L.L. Bean[/url]

[url="http://www.eddiebauer.com/eb/default.asp"]Eddie Bauer[/url]

[url="http://www.landsend.com/"]Land's End[/url]

Well, you wanted to know what people thought about fitness and makeup. I think that fitness is wonderful, since it keeps us healthy. What can be a problem is when the desire to be physically in shape leads to a wish for physical perfection---The Cult of the Body. I'm sure you know that, though. An added benefit to being physically fit is having the energy to clean those monastery or convents!

As far as makeup goes, I don't think it's a good idea. This might sound radical, but I think that makeup should be reserved for people who have scar tissue or actual deformities. It seems so artificial to try and fix what isn't broken. Of course I'm not saying that wearing makeup offends God! I just think it's better to be natural and real, i.e., makeup free.

I hope that helped! I'm sure others will give you some great answers to your questions!

Blessings to you,

Margaret

[Totus Tuus]

Well, I kind of have adventures when I go shopping, to find modest clothing in regular stores. It can be frustrating at times, but I don't always like the styles at "strictly modest" stores. Some seasons it's really easy to find modest clothing at regular stores, but other seasons you really do have to search hard.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I have similar experiences to Lauren. Most of my clothes come from normal shops. When I decided that I wanted to dress more modestly and that spaghetti straps weren't going to cut it, I just starting wearing light jackets over the top or accessorising with my old Saudi headscarves - some of them make absolutely brilliant shawls. Nice and swishy. I think everybody should have at least one huge scarf or shawl with a couple of pretty brooches for pinning. Mine are very versatile - they serve as headcoverings for Mass, blankets for when I am on the train, wraps when I'm cold, extra shopping bags (this is one of their more creative uses and it makes me look a little too like Johnsonville brat Whittington for my liking), picnic blankets...the list goes on.

[Chiquitunga]

I'm not sure if this link was posted yet, but here's a page on Colleen Hammond's (the one who wrote, [url="https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/669/"][i]Dressing with Dignity[/i][/url]) site, that my sister had up the other day, with a bunch of resources for finding modest clothing: [url="http://www.colleenhammond.com/resources.html"]http://www.colleenhammond.com/resources.html[/url]

[Laudem Gloriae]

Are any of these - or other? - links good for getting the typical live-in, retreat or postulant wear like - black stockings, long (mid-shin) black or brown jumpers, skirts, etc and white long-sleeved or 3/4 sleeve blouses? There are some overseas religious orders that don't have postulant habits and they ask you to bring these items and others. I have seen the long jumpers but in either a tacky print with flowers and such or in denim or in corduroy. Any links, suggestions?

I am still checking out the links from MargaretClare and others but I thought I'd post this in case some others who had live-ins and such got these items somewhere I hadn't found yet. Any suggestions or other links? Often the modest clothing women would wear to work or everyday is too "fancy" for a live-in or a postulant every day wear in an order. Thanks.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' post='1489622' date='Mar 31 2008, 01:37 PM']I'm not sure if this link was posted yet, but here's a page on Colleen Hammond's (the one who wrote, [url="https://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/669/"][i]Dressing with Dignity[/i][/url]) site, that my sister had up the other day, with a bunch of resources for finding modest clothing: [url="http://www.colleenhammond.com/resources.html"]http://www.colleenhammond.com/resources.html[/url][/quote]

OK not to open a huge can of worms but that book is completely and totally plagiarized. It's pretty sad.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1489844' date='Mar 31 2008, 06:47 PM']Are any of these - or other? - links good for getting the typical live-in, retreat or postulant wear like - black stockings, long (mid-shin) black or brown jumpers, skirts, etc and white long-sleeved or 3/4 sleeve blouses? There are some overseas religious orders that don't have postulant habits and they ask you to bring these items and others. I have seen the long jumpers but in either a tacky print with flowers and such or in denim or in corduroy. Any links, suggestions?

I am still checking out the links from MargaretClare and others but I thought I'd post this in case some others who had live-ins and such got these items somewhere I hadn't found yet. Any suggestions or other links? Often the modest clothing women would wear to work or everyday is too "fancy" for a live-in or a postulant every day wear in an order. Thanks.[/quote]

I think most people make their own jumpers when the community doesn't provide them, but I'm sure you could find something. I don't know how well this would go over, but you could always try and contact communities that have black or brown jumpers to buy one from them that is not being used or make one according to your measurements. Seamstresses in monasteries can usually whip those out in a jiffy because they have so much practice.

[shortnun]

[quote name='Laudem Gloriae' post='1489844' date='Mar 31 2008, 07:47 PM']Are any of these - or other? - links good for getting the typical live-in, retreat or postulant wear like - black stockings, long (mid-shin) black or brown jumpers, skirts, etc and white long-sleeved or 3/4 sleeve blouses? There are some overseas religious orders that don't have postulant habits and they ask you to bring these items and others. I have seen the long jumpers but in either a tacky print with flowers and such or in denim or in corduroy. Any links, suggestions?

I am still checking out the links from MargaretClare and others but I thought I'd post this in case some others who had live-ins and such got these items somewhere I hadn't found yet. Any suggestions or other links? Often the modest clothing women would wear to work or everyday is too "fancy" for a live-in or a postulant every day wear in an order. Thanks.[/quote]
In addition to Totus Tuus' comments, many communities have closets with these outfits. I know some women who've entered communities and have received these hand-me-downs. I would imagine that it depends largely on the community, of course. But in an interest of poverty, I would have to think that most places wouldn't require you make a lot of changes to your wardrobe in order to enter! (Other than get rid of most of your clothes )

Edited April 1, 2008 by shortnun

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1347306' date='Aug 2 2007, 12:35 PM']My shorts, not my parents.[/quote]


[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1347346' date='Aug 2 2007, 12:55 PM']Hehe! You're funny. I'm so glad that my post was helpful! I hope you don't mind my asking, but did you used to be Muslim?

Have you found it a great sacrifice to give up fashion for modest dress? I've found it difficult, because it seems that almost the only places to find clothing that really covers you up is at a store catering to women aged 30 and above. (I'm only 18!) It's a great way to get used to sacrificing one's vanity as preparation for religious life! Also, there's a great beauty in dressing as Our Lady would dress, don't you think?

Oh, and here is a link to a company that sells modest clothing:

[url="http://www.modestapparelusa.com/"]Modest Apparel USA[/url]

Also, here are two books written by an author mentioned in a [i]Newsweek[/i] article on girls and modesty:

[i]Girls Gone Mild [/i]

[i]A Return To Modesty[/i]

I haven't read either book, so I can't give it a personal recommendation, but they looked pretty good.

Her website is [url="http://www.modestyzone.net/"]Modesty Zone[/url][/quote]
If I was a girl looking into "modest clothing" and found those sites, I'd give up!

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1347538' date='Aug 2 2007, 03:04 PM']Oh, and do you know that it's actually quite wonderful to wear ankle-length skirts? You can just flop down in the grass or curl up on a train seat and you don't have to give a thought to what's showing and what's not [/quote]
I <3 that!

[quote name='Margaret Clare' post='1348720' date='Aug 3 2007, 03:21 PM']And nowadays I pretty much always wear some light long-sleeved cardigan when I'm in church - though the a/c at my parish really requires that anyway! [/quote]
The same is true of my parish!



My response to this thread:
My dress did change when I began to discern religious life. I think there was something inside of me all along that wanted to be more modest (and I had flirted around with a few styles of dress before that were more modest) but discernment gave me that "excuse". I started wearing tons of long skirts (floor length) and cardigans. I generally kept my hair up to avoid distraction. I wore less makeup though still enough to be "presentable". I'm not a fan of throwing yourself away just because you are discerning. I believe you should dress in a way which is modest but discreetly so. I don't think people should be able to tell that you are trying so hard. You should look presentable (put together) and mature. Light makeup is okay in my book, as is jewelry. When you make the leap into the convent, then you leave those things behind. But as long as we are in the world, we must make the effort to be respectably dressed.

For those of you who claim to not be able to find any modest clothing out there: there is modest clothing EVERYWHERE! I know we've had this discussion many times before and many times I have mentioned several stores that are sure to have something you both like and can wear modestly. Some of the stores I recommend with current examples:

[url="http://www.gap.com"]Gap[/url]
[img]http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/498/498508/main/gp498508-03p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/502/502831/main/gp502831-01p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/502/502831/main/gp502831-12p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/502/502817/main/gp502817-07p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/502/502794/main/gp502794-01p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.gap.com/Asset_Archive/GPWeb/Assets/Product/502/502820/main/gp502820-04p01v01.jpg[/img]

(The last one would of course have a shirt under it to cover any exposed chest...)


[url="http://www.eddiebauer.com/"]Eddie Bauer[/url][list]
[*][url="http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=32853&gpCategoryId=1&pCategoryId=3&categoryId=100&gpCategoryName=EB&pCategoryName=WOMEN&categoryName=DRESSES--SKIRTS&catPath=lineId=-1~~pCategoryId=1~~categoryId=3~~pCategorName=EB~~categoryName=WOMEN&viewAll=y"]This cute dress with a cardigan on top[/url]
[*][url="http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=32478&gpCategoryId=1&pCategoryId=3&categoryId=100&gpCategoryName=EB&pCategoryName=WOMEN&categoryName=DRESSES--SKIRTS&catPath=lineId=-1~~pCategoryId=1~~categoryId=3~~pCategorName=EB~~categoryName=WOMEN&viewAll=y"]This skirt, perhaps, if it's your taste...[/url]
[*][url="http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=32469&gpCategoryId=1&pCategoryId=3&categoryId=95&gpCategoryName=EB&pCategoryName=WOMEN&categoryName=SWEATERS--CARDIGANS&catPath=lineId=-1~~pCategoryId=1~~categoryId=3~~pCategorName=EB~~categoryName=WOMEN&viewAll=y"]Cable cardigan[/url]
[*][url="http://www.eddiebauer.com/catalog/product.jsp?ensembleId=32458&gpCategoryId=1&pCategoryId=3&categoryId=95&gpCategoryName=EB&pCategoryName=WOMEN&categoryName=SWEATERS--CARDIGANS&catPath=lineId=-1~~pCategoryId=1~~categoryId=3~~pCategorName=EB~~categoryName=WOMEN&viewAll=y"]Another great cardigan[/url]
[/list]
[url="http://www.jcrew.com"]J.Crew[/url]
[img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/93889_RD6042_m_SP08.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/91027_KD6643_m_SP08.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/92681_NA6434_m_SP08.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/85613_BL8783_m_SP08.jpg[/img]

[franciscanheart]

more from JCrew:

[img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/87699_BR6401_m_SP08.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/91377_PR5696_m_SP08.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/91644_YL5341_m_SP08.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.jcrew.com/images/newshots2004/main305/91622_RD5935_m_SP08.jpg[/img]

[url="http://www.anntaylorloft.com/"]Ann Taylor Loft[/url]
(Images from this site can't be loaded here. Check it out though... lots of adorable cardigans and tops! They also have some nice pants.)

[url="http://www.bananarepublic.com"]Banana Republic[/url]
[img]http://www.bananarepublic.com/Asset_Archive/BRWeb/Assets/Product/564/564241/main/br564241-03p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bananarepublic.com/Asset_Archive/BRWeb/Assets/Product/565/565046/main/br565046-01p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bananarepublic.com/Asset_Archive/BRWeb/Assets/Product/551/551688/main/br551688-00p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bananarepublic.com/Asset_Archive/BRWeb/Assets/Product/564/564949/main/br564949-00p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bananarepublic.com/Asset_Archive/BRWeb/Assets/Product/564/564586/main/br564586-00p01v01.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bananarepublic.com/Asset_Archive/BRWeb/Assets/Product/577/577810/main/br577810-00p01v01.jpg[/img]

[franciscanheart]

more from banana republic:
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pants are great (and look great) if you buy the right fit for you. low waist, high waist, wide leg, etc. never buy tapered! i luv a straight-line pant. it looks great on everyone and doesnt cling to the leg!

[url="http://www.chicos.com"]Chico's[/url]
[img]http://www.chicos.com/Product_Images/100042926_001_normal.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.chicos.com/Product_Images/100065663_001_normal.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.chicos.com/Product_Images/100073281_809_normal.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.chicos.com/Product_Images/100073252_normal.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.chicos.com/Product_Images/100074661_591_normal.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.chicos.com/Product_Images/100073333_normal.jpg[/img]