Modesty And Discernment

[HeavenlyCalling]

Cath Anon, that is a beautiful outfit!!!

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1348416' date='Aug 3 2007, 02:53 PM']I agree with you. I am a member of the "that" sex. And Modesty is the best policy for me.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about men in general in my post. Just the tattooed guys I see without shirts in the town centre. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I just think it's undignified at best to go to the high street and the shops without a shirt, especially in the height of summer when the shops are crowded and you are all sweaty. But the baboons of the town seem to think this is attractive to ladies.

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1348469' date='Aug 3 2007, 11:19 AM']I wasn't talking about men in general in my post. Just the tattooed guys I see without shirts in the town centre. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I just think it's undignified at best to go to the high street and the shops without a shirt, especially in the height of summer when the shops are crowded and you are all sweaty. But the baboons of the town seem to think this is attractive to ladies.[/quote]

I was trying to be sarcastic, make a joke of the "that Sex" comment. And Your right, those guys are baboons. No apologies necessary

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1347538' date='Aug 2 2007, 04:04 PM']You don't have to give up fashion for modest dress

I'm about medium-modest, I think. My basic thought is "if I would be ashamed to wear it in church, there's no sense in wearing it at all" I wear fitted t-shirts, but they're not tight. I've never seen any sense in uncovering my mid-riff, fortunately, so that's not a problem and deep plunging necklines are also not really my thing.

Skirts can be a problem since I have a 38" inseam (and that's not a typo ). Two of my favourites are exactly knee-length, although I wish they were a couple of inches longer.

All these things you can get in colours that are in fashion. Most of my friends don't even know that I take care to look modest!

Oh, and do you know that it's actually quite wonderful to wear ankle-length skirts? You can just flop down in the grass or curl up on a train seat and you don't have to give a thought to what's showing and what's not [/quote]

Yes, my thoughts are much of what you said. I am only 17...and love fashion! I'm not a freak about it or anything, but I love to wear bright colors like, pink, blue, green and red. I make sure all of my skirts are below the knee, but the shirts are hard. I have to buy a cami for everything it seems!! and even with those, I have to pull them up sometimes. I don't wear shorts that are above the knee either. But, I try to be as modest as I can. I also think, would I wear this to mass? And if not, I don't buy it. (Except for pants and things like that...I don't wear pants to Mass.)

[jkaands]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1348528' date='Aug 3 2007, 10:03 AM']Yes, my thoughts are much of what you said. I am only 17...and love fashion! I'm not a freak about it or anything, but I love to wear bright colors like, pink, blue, green and red. I make sure all of my skirts are below the knee, but the shirts are hard. I have to buy a cami for everything it seems!! and even with those, I have to pull them up sometimes. I don't wear shorts that are above the knee either. But, I try to be as modest as I can. I also think, would I wear this to mass? And if not, I don't buy it. (Except for pants and things like that...I don't wear pants to Mass.)[/quote]

I don't have a figure good enough to wear camis and I'm too old anyway, so I wear a short sleeved tee with a crew or shallow scoop neck or boat neck, one of my favorites, or square neck, ditto, with an long sleeved open shirt hanging out . It's a good look and forgiving for the not so slender midriff. Also modest. Usually the tee is black with a bright shirt. The "Marie" look (Raymond).

[Ora et Labora]

wow...haha! i LOVE that show!!!

[Slappo]

As for men and modesty, I do think that there is a certain dignity in which they should dress, even in regards to style. I think modesty for men comes a lot more with appropriateness of the occasion. As was said earlier in the posts, modesty is dressing with the dignity of a human body. It is not undignifying to where carharts when painting a house, but to where painted carharts to mass, or to a wedding would be what I would consider immodest.

Also definitely with the comment on undergarments like boxers, no way should they be showing. Pants shouldn't be worn low, and t-shirts shouldn't be too tight (muscle shirts). Shorts still shouldn't really be short. Even though the upper leg of a man may not be as attractive, it still shouldn't be revealed. Basically the same dress applies to men as it does women, the difference is men don't usually have a hard time adhearing to the form of their body, and therefore clothing is VERY EASILY accesable for men. Even those who may not try to dress modest, are still dressed with a certain dignity becuase it is much harder to buy inappropriate clothes as a male (in my opinion).

I'm a strong supporter of slacks (dress pants), button shirts (or at least polo's), and sweaters. In the summer, dress shorts and short sleeve button shirts! Although I don't strictly adhere to what I support myself. I don't have any short sleeve button shirts, and I'll often wear jeans (lately) to my desk job than dress pants. A lot of it is I've only had this conviction for a few months, and financially trying to go to college and buy more clothes doesn't work too well. I have a lot of nice shirts and sweaters come fall and winter, but summer is still difficult. I need a couple more pairs of slacks too, or at least to do my wash more often!

Well I kinda rambled, and now I should go back to work. Adios!

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1348229' date='Aug 2 2007, 11:00 PM']There should be a sense of the sacred and mysterious when it comes to the female body. We can be likened to the ark of the covenant, having the potentiality to bear life [i]within[/i] us. Even if we never do, physically, we always have that [i]potentiality[/i], and that makes our bodies very privileged. We should reverence that privilege (and so should men, but we have to be the ones who promote reverence by the way we dress and by our actions). It is a gift from God and modesty is what safeguards it for Him, and potentially for a husband.[/quote]

I disagree a bit here. The body is something, as God's handiwork, to be celebrated and known in a proper context. To insist that the body be shrouded in formless robes is to deny the beauty of God's creation. Should muscular men shroud their arms or buttocks because women may find them potentially attractive or rousing?

This doesn't mean that women should run around immodestly, but to pretend the female form doesn't exist because it may arouse men is silliness. We are created with sexual energy (to, uh, make more of us....) and it must be kept in check just like every other human inclination (industriousness, recreation, appetite). Don't pretend you're breasts aren't there...trust me, every single person on the street knows they exist.

I prefer a race of people with two genders that are obvious and beautiful, and not neutered.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1348666' date='Aug 3 2007, 10:24 PM']I disagree a bit here. The body is something, as God's handiwork, to be celebrated and known in a proper context. To insist that the body be shrouded in formless robes is to deny the beauty of God's creation. Should muscular men shroud their arms or buttocks because women may find them potentially attractive or rousing?

This doesn't mean that women should run around immodestly, but to pretend the female form doesn't exist because it may arouse men is silliness. We are created with sexual energy (to, uh, make more of us....) and it must be kept in check just like every other human inclination (industriousness, recreation, appetite). Don't pretend you're breasts aren't there...trust me, every single person on the street knows they exist.

I prefer a race of people with two genders that are obvious and beautiful, and not neutered.[/quote]

To me it doesn't seem like you disagree - modest does not have to equal formless (although the reverse is probably true ). Respecting your body doesn't mean ignoring it! You can wear clothes that flatter you, but don't show off particular attributes. Especially if some people would take any chance to mentally reduce you to those attributes. I'm not saying I can or should make them not do that - just that I'm surely not going to help them

[Chiquitunga]

Hey CA, that's an incredible story about your growing up in Saudi Arabia! Thanks for sharing! And yes, that's such a beautiful dress!!!

Yeah, when I began discerning, I stopped wear shorts, and generally began wearing more dressed up clothes, though not very dressy - just whatever I have - on a daily basis, since I would usually go to daily Mass. And nowadays I pretty much always wear some light long-sleeved cardigan when I'm in church - though the a/c at my parish really requires that anyway!

Edited August 3, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Carmelitess]

Thanks for all the great comments!

C.A., your dress is so feminine and pretty! That's so interesting about your having lived in Saudi Arabia.

Thanks so much to Philosobrat for that great website! I now can't believe how many options there are out there for women and girls trying to dress modestly.

Btw, I've often wondered about bathing suits and modesty (for men and women). Why is it okay to wear bathing suits (which don't leave much to the imagination---they're so tight and don't cover one's legs, etc.) at the beach, but it's not proper in any other context. It's not as if the men at the beach suddenly stop checking girls out as soon as they hit the sand. I actually heard Mother Angelica from EWTN say she didn't like bathing suits b/c they weren't modest.

I don't know if anybody's heard about it, but I like the idea of the "Pink Beach" in Italy---absolutely no men allowed! From what I understand, the Italian women got so fed up with the men chasing after them and gawking at them, that they set up this beach that's all for women and girls. They should do something like that in America. LOL

Please understand that I'm not judging anybody here, just giving my two cents.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1348666' date='Aug 3 2007, 03:24 PM']I disagree a bit here. The body is something, as God's handiwork, to be celebrated and known in a proper context. To insist that the body be shrouded in formless robes is to deny the beauty of God's creation. Should muscular men shroud their arms or buttocks because women may find them potentially attractive or rousing?

This doesn't mean that women should run around immodestly, but to pretend the female form doesn't exist because it may arouse men is silliness. We are created with sexual energy (to, uh, make more of us....) and it must be kept in check just like every other human inclination (industriousness, recreation, appetite). Don't pretend you're breasts aren't there...trust me, every single person on the street knows they exist.

I prefer a race of people with two genders that are obvious and beautiful, and not neutered.[/quote]

First off, I never said anything about "formless robes". That's from your own imagination. In fact, I wasn't talking at all about what type of styles should be worn. I was talking about what should be [i]covered up[/i]. I also commented that those things are reserved for God and the spouse. Those parts of the body ARE celebrated by the way God uses them and allows us to use them. But I don't think you'd disagree, for example, that women should go around "celebrating" their wombs in front of men who aren't their husbands. Again, I never said anything about formlessness... that's totally out of the topic I was addressing

[quote name='veniteadoremus']To me it doesn't seem like you disagree - modest does not have to equal formless (although the reverse is probably true smile.gif ). Respecting your body doesn't mean ignoring it! You can wear clothes that flatter you, but don't show off particular attributes. Especially if some people would take any chance to mentally reduce you to those attributes. I'm not saying I can or should make them not do that - just that I'm surely not going to help them[/quote]

EXACTLY. Thank you

Edited August 3, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1348875' date='Aug 3 2007, 06:57 PM']First off, I never said anything about "formless robes". That's from your own imagination.[/quote]
Must be the heat and the wine....and the brandy.....and the scotch....

My gosh, I drink like a priest!

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1348919' date='Aug 3 2007, 07:31 PM']Must be the heat and the wine....and the brandy.....and the scotch....

My gosh, I drink like a priest![/quote]

[Johanna]

My clothing did not really change much. The only thing I pay attention to now is that I do cover my cleavage (which I did most of the time anyway even before). The other thing is that I go to church almost every day now and therefore also cover my shoulders and my knees. On the rare occasions I cannot attend Holy Mass one day [i]and[/i] it is really hot outside, it happens that I wear only a tank top or a skirt that ends just above my knees, but in comparison with other girls around, even that is kind of "modest". And I do wear really tight T-shirts, even to church, and I do prefer them to the loose ones. You can see one I really like here: [url="http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?op=article&article_id=315249&p=1"]My favorite T-shirt[/url]

P.S.: I, too, love ankle-length skirts!

Edited August 4, 2007 by Johanna