Catholics: Not Peculiar People At All?

[Budge]

[i]1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[/i]

[quote]Catholics Have Become Mainstream America

July 9, 2007

(Ventura, CA) - Not too long ago, Catholics were seen as a different breed of Americans - mostly European immigrants, urban, blue collar and participants in a minority religion. When John Kennedy became the first Catholic president elected in the United States in 1960, his faith of choice was a significant issue in the campaign.

Although the percentage of adults who describe themselves as Catholic has dropped from three out of ten to slightly more than two out of ten in the past two decades, Catholics remain the largest denominational segment in the country (22%). These days, however, they are as mainstream as any people group in the nation. A new survey of more than 4000 adults conducted by The Barna Group examined 97 different facets of the lives of Catholics, comparing them to national norms. The outcome is striking: Catholics are virtually indistinguishable from people aligned with other faith groups - except in the area of faith. Overall, there were 33 significant differences, but 82% of those differences related to religious or moral components. In the religious dimension, Catholics were notably different from other Americans on 20 of the 28 faith-related measures examined in the Barna study.

Religious Differences Examined

The survey explored three dimensions of people’s faith: behaviors, beliefs and attitudes. Catholics were significantly different from other Americans in each of those areas. Two out of three Catholics (68%) said their religious faith is very important in their life - the same as was true among non-Catholic adults – but how their faith is manifested is quite divergent.
[b]
All five of the faith-related attitudes tested showed a gap between Catholics and other Americans. Among the elements tested were people’s highest priority in life (Catholics were only half as likely as others to mention their faith, and a majority identified family as their priority) and their commitment to the Christian faith (44% of Catholics claimed to be "absolutely committed" compared to 54% of the entire adult population). [u]Further; Catholics were less likely than average to look forward to discussing their religious views with other people, to attending church services, and to reading the Bible. In fact, Catholics were only half as likely as other Americans to say they look forward "a lot" to reading from the Bible.[/u][/b]

Of the dozen faith-oriented behaviors tested, Catholics strayed from the norm in relation to eight of the 12 items. [b][u]Specifically, the typical Catholic person donated about 17% less money to churches; was 38% less likely than the average American to read the Bible; 67% less likely to attend a Sunday school class; 20% less likely to share their faith in Christ with someone who had different beliefs; 24% less likely to say their religious faith has greatly transformed their life; and were 36% less likely to have an "active faith,[/u]" which Barna defined as reading the Bible, praying and attending a church service during the prior week. However, Catholics were 16% more likely than the norm to attend a church service and 8% more likely to have prayed to God during the prior week.[/b]

The spiritual beliefs of Catholics are also substantially different from the typical views of Americans. Catholics differed from most people on seven of the 11 belief-focused questions raised.[[u]b] For instance, Catholics were significantly less likely to believe that the Bible is totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches and only half as likely to maintain that they have a responsibility to share their faith with others. They were more likely than the norm to say that Satan is not real; to believe that eternal salvation is earned; and to contend that Jesus Christ sinned while on earth.[/b][/u]

Interestingly, one out of every four Catholics is born again (based on their beliefs, not their self-description). That ranks Catholics as the second-largest denominational grouping of born again Christians in the nation, behind Baptists, and represents significant growth in the proportion of Catholics who are born again. Even so, they are 37% less likely to be born again than are adults not associated with the Catholic faith.

Moral Convictions Differ

The moral behaviors of Catholics also stood out in several areas. Among the 16 moral behaviors examined, Catholics were notably more likely to not say mean things about people behind their back, and were more likely to engage in recycling. However, they were also twice as likely to view pornographic content on the Internet and were more likely to use profanity, to gamble, and to buy lottery tickets.

Among the moral behaviors in which Catholics were indistinguishable from other Americans were illegally downloading copyrighted music from the Internet, stealing, engaging in physical abuse, getting drunk, using illegal, non-prescription drugs, lying, committing adultery, and seeking revenge.

The Rest of Life

Regarding aspects of life outside of faith and morals, Catholics are strikingly similar to the rest of the public. For example, from the 14 self-descriptions offered to survey respondents, the only adjective that separated Catholics from other Americans was their disinclination to adopt the term "evangelical Christian." Catholics were 39% less likely to accept that label. But all of the other adjectives - ranging from "independent thinker," "seen as a leader," and "loyal and reliable" to "stressed out" and "clear about the meaning and purpose of my life" - generated virtually identical scores between Catholics and others.

Similarly, people’s attitudes about life differ little according to their faith preferences. The exceptions concerned what people look forward to doing in life. There is less anticipation among Catholics regarding a good night of sleep or reading a good book, and slightly more excitement about spending time working on their garden and yard. But the bulk of the attitudes investigated - regarding media, consumerism, vacations, health and exercise, and even household duties - showed no difference between Catholics and other Americans.

In fact, a series of 11 questions about the existence and extent of poverty in the U.S., and people’s personal responses to poverty, showed no distinctions between Catholics and other adults.

Demographic Similarities

Years ago, politicians counted on Catholics to respond to certain cues based on the unique demographic profile of the group. That distinction has vanished. The survey explored a dozen demographic variables and discovered that Catholics are the same as the rest of the country on ten of those twelve items.

Catholics emerged as a slightly more affluent group. While that represents a noteworthy departure from the past, when Catholics were largely blue collar, the current economic difference is minor in magnitude.

The primary demographic difference relates to ethnicity. The Catholic population presently has a disproportionately low number of blacks and a disproportionately high number of Hispanics. This ethnic imbalance is such that blacks make up one out of every seven Americans, but just one out of every 25 Catholics. On the other hand, Hispanics are currently 15% of the national adult population, but twice that proportion (30%) within the Catholic community.

Catholics and the Significance of Faith

Sociologists have long noted the tendency of immigrant groups to work hard at embracing their new culture, with the group losing its distinctiveness in the process. One of the edges they often lose is their religious distinctive. That has happened to American Catholics over the past century. Today, they are a large and vibrant group, but one that is faith-aware rather than faith-driven. The survey data portray Catholics as people whose lifestyles and thought patterns are more influenced by the social mainstream than by the core principles of the Christian faith.

While Protestants in America have experienced the same type of spiritual compromise over the course of time, there remains a substantial gap between Protestants and Catholics regarding matters of faith, if not lifestyle and thought. [b][u]The survey showed that American Catholics are more similar to non-Christians living in the U.S. than they are to the nation's Protestant adults[/u]. Even the born again segment among Catholics showed few differences in lifestyle and attitudes from national norms.[/b]

The profile of Catholics raises concerns about that faith segment according to George Barna, who directed the study.

"The history of American Catholics is that of a pool of immigrants who have successfully blended into the native culture. They have done well at adapting to their surroundings and emerging to become a backbone of the community and the national economy. The questions raised fifty years ago about the political loyalties and social objectives of Catholics are no longer relevant in this society," Barna commented. "Yet, the cost of that struggle to achieve acceptance and legitimacy is that Catholics have largely lost touch with much of their substantive spiritual heritage. They retain an appreciation for tradition and consistency, but have much less of a commitment to knowing and practicing the commands of Christ. For instance, the data show that some of their long-held distinctives, such as being champions of social justice, are no longer a defining facet of their community."

"The trail of Catholicism in America is a clear example of culture influencing faith more often than faith influencing culture," Barna continued. "The faith of tens of millions of Catholics is affected by the prevailing culture more than by the central principles and teachings of the Bible. Spiritual leaders who are passionate about remaining true to the scriptures and to Catholicism’s historic commitment to Jesus Christ and the Word of God must address this spiritual drift within the body. If they fail to do so, in the next quarter century American Catholicism could well lose its ability to shape people’s minds and hearts in ways that conform to the historic teachings and purposes of Christianity."

About the Research

This report is based upon nationwide telephone surveys conducted by The Barna Group with a random sample of adults, age 18 and older, conducted between August 2006 and January 2007. In total, 4014 adults were interviewed, allowing for a maximum margin of sampling error of ±1.7 percentage points at the 95% confidence level. Within that aggregate, 876 self-identified Catholics were interviewed, providing data for that group with a maximum margin of sampling error of ±3.4 percentage points at the 95% confidence level. Statistical weighting was used to calibrate the sample to known population percentages in relation to several demographic variables.

"Born again Christians" are defined as people who said they have made a personal commitment to Jesus Christ that is still important in their life today and who also indicated they believe that when they die they will go to Heaven because they had confessed their sins and had accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. Respondents are not asked to describe themselves as "born again."
.[/quote]

While there are plenty of Prots and others that would fulfill this, obviously 95% in the pews might as well be unsaved and unchurched...their faith seems to make little difference in their life or worldview.

and then there is this...


How can you fight abainst Satan when you dont even believe he is real?

[quote]Beliefs

* Slightly more than two-thirds of Catholics (68%) say the devil is non-existant and only a symbol of evil. (2006).[/quote]

[url="http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=15"]LINK[/url]

[Paddington]

I've heard similar observations from Catholics who are peculiar and saddened by nominalism.

If anybody has other evidence, I hope they post it.

I've grown up with a "believe Barna" attitude. I'm not sure where I got it, but I have it.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Budge' post='1347128' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:35 AM']While there are plenty of Prots and others that would fulfill this, obviously 95% in the pews might as well be unsaved and unchurched...their faith seems to make little difference in their life or worldview.[/quote]
Between 1960 and 1995, average voter turnout in America is 54%. In Malta, it's 94%. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout#International_differences"]Source[/url] Does this mean Malta or its government is superior to the U.S.? Or does this mean the people are failing the system, not the system failing the people?

And if there was a report showing 100% mass attendance, 100% belief in the real presence of Satan, etc., would it make you, Budge, a Catholic? Or, would you still be posting photos of the pope with people of other faiths and claiming the world is being duped by Catholicism?

[adt6247]

Just because most in the pews don't have any faith means nothing about those of us who do.

I wouldn't put too much faith in any church founded by men. Plenty of Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, etc. have faith in what their church teaches, but that does not guarantee salvation. They are wrong in their beliefs, and thus are led astray. Same are protestants. Just because they are closer to the truth means little if they die rejecting Christ's church.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

It is quite possible to take a set of statistics and deduce anything you like from them, which means that unless certain rigorous procedures are applied the results are always skewed. This is especially true of qualitative research. I can see several potential stumbling-blocks in this survey, and here are the major ones:

1.) The surveyors have assumed that Catholicism and the different Protestantisms share a common axiom - that of unflinching religious belief. It is possible to be culturally Catholic, in much the same way that it is possible to be culturally Jewish, but I defy anyone to say that it is possible to be culturally Protestant outside of Northern Ireland. For this reason, anyone who defines themselves as a Protestant Christian in North America is very likely to mean that they are a religious believer. But it is quite possible that a number of people who identify themselves as Catholic have a merely cultural relationship with the faith. That survey makes it blindingly clear that the researchers didn't seek out active churchgoers, just 'adults who describe themselves as Catholic', which means that the integrity of the results is immediately questionable. If they polled practising Catholics alongside practising Protestants, the outcome might have been rather different.

2.) The survey's options are contradictory. Take this for an example:

[quote]and were 36% less likely to have an "active faith," which Barna defined as reading the Bible, praying and attending a church service during the prior week. However, Catholics were 16% more likely than the norm to attend a church service and 8% more likely to have prayed to God during the prior week.[/quote]

If Catholics are 'sixteen per cent more likely than the norm' to go to church, how can they possibly be less likely to read the Bible, given the nature of Catholic liturgy? I read more Scripture at Catholic Masses than I ever read at the evangelical services my college's Christian Union sometimes invites me to attend. There the pastor preaches on a particular topic and mentions Bible verses piecemeal. At Mass, you get an OT reading, a psalm, a Gospel reading, and a portion of the NT other than the Gospel. Always. Read one after the other. Followed by a sermon on the Word. That is some serious Bible. If the survey meant 'reading the Bible in private', they should have made that clear. It's misleading.

[quote]; was 38% less likely than the average American to read the Bible;[/quote]

That sentence is worrying as well. It suggests that the creators of the survey had mentally created two categories when they set out to conduct the survey: Catholics and 'average Americans', but that's not the most worrying part. At first I hoped that the researchers would not be using anything so primitive as the mean to work out their results, but I was wrong. Assume that you have five Protestants who read the Bible three times a day, three who read it once a day, and two who never touch it. Then assume that you have ten Catholics who each read the Bible once a day. If you abide by averages, it immediately looks as if the Protestant segment is more devout, which is blatantly misleading. It's appalling methodology.

3.) This survey was not free from social desirability bias, meaning that subjects may have given researchers the results that they felt the researchers wanted or answers that made themselves look good. Take this for an example:

[quote]Among the moral behaviors in which Catholics were indistinguishable from other Americans were illegally downloading copyrighted music from the Internet, stealing, engaging in physical abuse, getting drunk, using illegal, non-prescription drugs, lying, committing adultery, and seeking revenge.[/quote]

Again, this could be due to the inclusion of non-practising, cultural Catholics in the survey. Or it COULD be due to greater honesty in the Catholic population. Practising Catholics are accustomed to Confession, to spilling the beans when we've done something wrong. Who knows? Perhaps believers from other churches (especially those that devote themselves so enthusiastically to proselytising) are more reluctant to admit in a survey that their lives are less than spotless. Remember Ted Haggard? And the numerous other high-profile Evangelicals who have fallen off their pedestals, usually as a result of sexual indiscretion? Either way, there is no way to keep a study like this free from bias and demand characteristics.

There is one other thing about this particular paragraph that bothers me. [i]Among the moral behaviors in which Catholics were indistinguishable from other Americans...[/i], followed by a litany of immoral behaviours. Are these 'other Americans' the same 'average Americans' who are more likely than Catholics to read the Bible? Or has the definition of 'American' subtly changed in between questions? This smells of manipulation to me.

And that's just a sample of the gaping methodological holes in this thing. Even assuming that it were watertight, what earthly use would it be to post the results on Phatmass? The motto of this site is 'Converting Catholics to Catholicism', for goodness' sake. Catholics here are all practising and are very unlikely to jump ship because other Catholics are failing to practise. If anything, it is likely to make us redouble our efforts - to pray the Confiteor with greater fervour, to promote the Faith, to make 'cultural Catholics' realise what a gift they have turned their backs on. This is just a snarky and feeble attempt at making us feel ashamed of our Catholic identity. It's a new low for you, Budge.

[T-Bone _]

If there was only one faithful Catholic left, it would still be the true Church founded by Jesus Christ. These numbers mean nothing Budge. Anyone that can use critical thinking knows that.

[Groo the Wanderer]

She's got the crtical part down pat...needs to work on the other part though, methinks. Instead of spewing anti-Catholic carp....

[tojo]

The use of Protestant expressions and practices certainly had some effect on this survey. Many Catholics don't use expressions like "accept Jesus as Savior" (often because it sounds too Protestant to them) and few parishes have Sunday School, especially for adults!

Also, some of the moral issues, such as drinking, are seen as acceptable in moderation by Catholics, whereas they are forbidden by many Protestants.

All in all, I think this simply shows that people from a Catholic background who aren't very religious are more likely to continue to self-identify with Catholics and to maintain some (low) degree of religious practice than people from Protestant backgrounds who aren't very religious.

While annoying in some ways, I maintain that it is a good thing, well, at least, it's better than there giving up on Catholicism altogether.

My family comes from a Baptist background, but for the past couple generations Baptists have had no influence on us, and guess what? First the Pentecostals, and then the catholics got me. My Baptists preacher ancestors are rolling over in their graves. Protestants loose people too.

[Farsight one]

[quote name='Budge' post='1347128' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:35 AM'][i]1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[/i][/quote]
Strange...I see that you interpreted the line in a way that all of those descriptors refer to one specific kind of people. I would have(and do) read it in a way that each descriptor is for a different kind of people. I.E. - "a chosen generation" would be the Jewish people, "a royal priesthood" would be the hierarchy of Catholics, "an holy nation" would be Vatican City(technically a country), and "a peculiar people" would be anyone else who gets saved. Obviously, exactly who each descriptor is referring to is open to interpretation, but I think you get the idea.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Budge' post='1347128' date='Aug 2 2007, 09:35 AM'][i]1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[/i]
While there are plenty of Prots and others that would fulfill this, obviously 95% in the pews might as well be unsaved and unchurched...their faith seems to make little difference in their life or worldview.

and then there is this...
How can you fight abainst Satan when you dont even believe he is real?
[url="http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=15"]LINK[/url][/quote]
Those people are "Catholics-in-name-only."
They do not follow the teaching of the Church.

(And it's ironic that you complain about these unfaithful "Catholics," yet at the same time attack those Catholics who [i]are[/i] faithful to the Church's unpopular teachings. )

And surely, Budge, you must be aware that there are plenty of people who call themselves "Christian," yet do not live their faith and believe all sorts of stuff contrary to the Gospel.

Does that prove Christianity itself bunk, according to you?

But I guess we Catholics just aren't peculiar enough for your tastes - say what you want about Budge, but she certainly is a peculiar one, all right!

Edited August 3, 2007 by Socrates

[Budge]

Christians are to be apart from the world.

and sure there are plenty of apostate Prots and neo-evangelicalists to join you in the mainstream world.

Who live like everyone else while professing to be Christians.

Christians are supposed to be different from the world. Im sorry but Catholicism does not teach sepeartion from the world and even now liberal Prots and others are using "seperationists" as a sneer against Bible believing Christians.

Yeah I am peculiar, guilty as charged.

If someone is a Christian--they are supposed to be VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE WORLD!

[T-Bone _]

Budge-

You have that right. You certainly are different.

[Maggyie]

I don't know where we disagree Budge Good Christians should be very different from the world. Bad Christians are very like the world. The people in your demographics are just bad Christians. That doesn't say anything about the efficacy of Christ's sacrifice, the validity of the Gospel, or the Church...

[Budge]

The true gospel changes individuals.

The problem with Catholicism is it is all based on the institution, and it is "another gospel"

Those born again in Jesus Christ become "new creatures in Christ"

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='Budge' post='1349451' date='Aug 4 2007, 09:33 AM']The true gospel changes individuals.

The problem with Catholicism is it is all based on the institution, and it is "another gospel"

Those born again in Jesus Christ become "new creatures in Christ"[/quote]

Spoken like someone truly ignorant of the teachings of the Chuch.