The Origin Of God?

[carrdero]

[quote]Adt6247 writes: That makes no sense. What force held the universe together before your "god" came to some sort of hippy self-actuallization?[/quote]
What force? What Universe?
[quote]Adt6247 writes: No one here ever stated that God required us to believe in him. God exists independently of us, but we are utterly dependent on God.[/quote]
What dependency upon GOD would an atheist require?

[adt6247]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1342052' date='Jul 27 2007, 02:53 AM']What force? What Universe?[/quote]
I don't know what force -- you tell me? What is the common source of ALL EXISTENCE? There has to be a common source, otherwise, nothing else could interact with anything else, because cause and effect would be nil.

[quote name='carrdero' post='1342052' date='Jul 27 2007, 02:53 AM']What dependency upon GOD would an atheist require?[/quote]
Existence. All existence depends on the source of existence, by definition. There must be a single source of existence, otherwise we could not occupy the same universe as each other. That source of existence is God.

[adt6247]

Ok, before continuing this discussion, I have to ask one question:

[indent][b][u]Do you adhere to the logical principal of non-contradiction?[/u][/b][/indent]

By that, I mean do you believe that you cannot say:

[indent]A = NOT A[/indent]

If you do not believe that the above statement is ALWAYS false for ALL values of A, I will cease discussion with you permanently, and ignore all postings by you in the future, because that means that your rantings are just rantings based on feelings, and that you can believe whatever you want to. This problem that you are discussing was tackled thousands of years ago by philosophers. The fact that you are even discussing such nonsense leads me to believe that you are a lazy and dishonest thinker.

[carrdero]

[quote]Adt6247 writes: Existence. All existence depends on the source of existence, by definition. There must be a single source of existence, otherwise we could not occupy the same universe as each other. That source of existence is God.[/quote]

Atheists do not believe in the existence of a God, yet they exist. Atheists do not depend or rely on the existence of God even if He did exist and they exist.

[quote]Adt6247 writes: I don't know what force -- you tell me? What is the common source of ALL EXISTENCE? There has to be a common source, otherwise, nothing else could interact with anything else, because cause and effect would be nil.[/quote]

I would believe this common source or force to be thought. Can you give me an example of anything that has existed without thought? As for a universe or a representable environment, I do not believe there was any tangible universe when GOD became self aware (what kind of environment would a thought need to survive in?). If you believe in the cause and effect law, I suppose you would also be able to elaborate this belief to a God that always was with no beginning.

[quote]Adt6247 writes: Existence. All existence depends on the source of existence, by definition. There must be a single source of existence, otherwise we could not occupy the same universe as each other. That source of existence is God.[/quote]

What was the cause of this Source? Are you trying to explain to me that the Source is the Source?

[quote]Adt6247 writes: If you do not believe that the above statement is ALWAYS false for ALL values of A, I will cease discussion with you permanently, and ignore all postings by you in the future,[/quote]
I must be honest I never became familiar with the above theory until you posted it and I had to research it to understand it better. After giving it some considerable thought, it is way to early for me to doubt or believe without more of an understanding of what is “A” and where did “A” come from.

[quote]Adt6247 writes: because that means that your rantings are just rantings based on feelings, and that you can believe whatever you want to.[/quote]

I have not attached any personal feelings to my beliefs, they are based on thought not emotions.

[quote]Adt6247 writes: This problem that you are discussing was tackled thousands of years ago by philosophers. The fact that you are even discussing such nonsense leads me to believe that you are a lazy and dishonest thinker.[/quote]

The problem we are discussing is still being discussed today by prominent theorists and philosophers. You seem to be under the impression that this subject is closed and has been solved and now resides in the realm of Truth and that no other discussion should be questioned or initiated. I understand that this is the “origin of GOD” thread but there are still other people debating the uncertainty of “Is there A GOD?”

I’m not sure if you can possibly support a logical argument by exempting your Source from the same logic that you subscribe to. As much as it is hopeful and convenient to believe in a God that always was, personal observation and experience for me says nothing begins without a thought and the desire and determination to follow through with those ideas.

Edited July 28, 2007 by carrdero

[adt6247]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1342941' date='Jul 28 2007, 06:37 AM']I must be honest I never became familiar with the above theory until you posted it and I had to research it to understand it better. After giving it some considerable thought, it is way to early for me to doubt or believe without more of an understanding of what is “A” and where did “A” come from.[/quote]

I am officially ducking out of this conversation, and ignoring all other posts by you, as you have admitted that you do not believe in the rule of non-contradiction, and thus, you are by definition 100% irrational. No serious discussion can exist without reason.

Feel free to email me or something if you grow up.

[Aloysius]

[img]http://www.mythfolklore.net/mywiki/images/spock.jpg[/img]

A is just a variable, put anything in there and that statement must be false. anything at all, there is no possible thing you could put into the formula (except some witty linguistic trick) that would make it true. it is an absolute principal of logic, and anyone who does not accept it is, by nature, an illogical person and is incapable of intelligent discourse.