What Is A Christian And Why Are We?

[cmotherofpirl]

I still have not seen scripture supporting this. I will ask you again show me scripture to prove out you point of view. Where is it? I know again Scare Tradition, Oral Tradition. Show me in God's Words, the answers to my question, not opinion of the Catholic church.

THe bible is a Catholic Church book Mr T, you keep forgetting that.

[M.SIGGA]

I see no scripture to prove out any of my questions. All writing authored by God is inspired. If you find danger in that you fear the truth. The Bible was to led people to salvation it is not damaged by the Book of Enoch or any other inspired writing. You are to foolish to know that. If you read the Book of Enoch or The Book of Adam & Eve it only bring clearness to Bible it doesn't not take anything away from it. Reading them do not add or take away from the Bible it give you a full and clear picture of the working of God with man. Where man weakness showed. The fact that every thing in the Bible is true both Book concure with that. You can't make claims related to either Book if you have not read them. INSPRIED WORDS OF GOD ARE NOT CONTROL BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BUT GOD HIMSELF.

Larry,

Ok then who determines what is truly inspired and what is not if not the Early Church councils? if you didn't know, the Book of Enoch is primarily about the actions and deeds and judgement of fallen angels - including their "angel-marriages" - not the biblical Enoch and it was written centuries after the biblical Enoch existed by exiled Jews. If you chose to believe in this as truly God inspired, then that's on your soul. Are the Gospels of Thomas, Peter, and Mary also God inspired works, or is Enoch given special priority? I'll ask for the 5th+ time, what are your references and sources? Are you some sort of non-denominational - what are you? Just to let you know that you have separated yourseld from most non-Catholic Christians with what you have stated thus far. PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS IF YOU SINCERELY WANT TO DEBATE. The previous one on the Book of Daniel would also be nice.

[M.SIGGA]

Also why do you even reference the Bible if the Catholic Church has no authority to say what is really God inspired and what is not? There is no denying that the current canon of New Testement Scripture was decided upon by the Church Fathers and the most anti-Catholic protestant doesn't deny that fact. If all of this was flawed and corrupt from the beginning how do you know what you are reading is real? You have already said the system was flawed in the beginning concerning the disregard of the Book of Enoch. Have you created your own canon of inspired works? What makes scripture inspired from your point-of-view?

[phatcatholic]

Again, I have asked that you not request I go to a website for your proof. If you have chapter and verse to prove your point I will be glad to look it up in the scripture. No someone else opinion, www.scripturecatholic.com, is not what i asked for. Get your Bible out and give me chapter and verse so I can see it in the context of the Bible.

UGH! i knew you would say that! will u please just click on the links. it doesn't matter where they come from! scripture is scripture is scripture. all the chapters and verses you could ever want are right there. ur killin me dude!

you realize that if i put all the scripture here that it will be the longest post ever. you realize that, right? it will be much easier on u if u just click on the links and look at the scripture.

but, b/c u requested, here ya go:

The Catholic church come from Peter?

--Peter is the rock: Mark 3:16; John 1:42; Matt. 16:18; Matt. 7:24; Luke 6:48

--Peter singled out by Jesus: John 21:15-17; Luke 22:31-32

--Peter has the keys of authority: Matt. 16:19; Isaiah 22:22; Rev. 1:18; 3:7; 9:1; 20:1; Luke 12:41-42; Ezek. 37:24-25

--These keys of authority are passed on: Jer. 33:17; Isa. 22:22; Acts 1:20; John 21:15-17; Luke 22:31-32; Matt. 23:2;

That Peter is the foundation of the Church?

--see above

That Peter was told by Jesus that he Peter would build his church?

--see above

That Mary is the mother of God?

--Isaiah 7:14; Matt. 1:23; Luke 1:28; Luke 1:43

Scare Tradition is from Jesus or even Peter?

--Luke 10:16; Acts 2:42; John 17:20; 1 Cor. 11:2; Phil. 4:9; 2 Thess. 2:15; 2 Thess. 3:6; 2 Tim. 2:2; 2 Tim. 3:14

That Mary became part of the God Head?

--she's NOT

Scare Tradition is equal to or trumps Scripture or the Holy Spirit?

--in saying "he who hears you hears me" Jesus equates the teaching of the apostles w/ the Word of God. Scripture is the Word of God. therefore, they are equal in inspiration. also, see the quotes on tradition above.

That Enoch did not walk with God?

--no one is attempting to prove otherwise. at any rate, how does this prove that what he wrote is inpired? Peter walked w/ God, but the Gospel of Peter isn't inspired.

Who was Enoch?

--why does it matter?

That Mary didn't have other children?

--Ezek. 44:2; Luke 1:31,34

--in Jewish custom, younger brothers never advise older ones: John 7:3-4; Mark 3:21

--if he had brothers, why commit his mother to a friend? John 19:26-27

--the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins: John 19:25; Matt. 27:61, 28:1; Matt. 27:56; Mark 15:47; Mark 6:3

That Mary was the mother of us all?

--John typifies the Church: John 19:26; Rev. 12:17

--As our mother, Mary intercedes for us: John 2:3, 7

--the following verses show the role of the Queen, or the King's Mother: Psalm 45:9 1 Kings 2:17-20; 1 Kings 15:13; 2 Chron. 22:10; Neh. 2:6

That Peter was a pope?

--see above

Where in the Scripture did Christ command the seven sacraments.

--Baptism: John 3:3,5; Acts 8:36; Acts 10:47; 2 Kings 5:14; Isaiah 44:3; Ezek. 36:25-27; Matt. 28:19-20; Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16; Acts 22:16; Rom. 6:4; 1 Cor. 6:11; Titus 3:5; Heb. 10:22; 1 Peter 3:21;

--Confession: John 20:21-23; Matt. 9:8; Matt. 18:18; 2 Cor. 2:10; 2 Cor. 5:18; James 5:15; Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22; James 5:16; Acts 19:18;

--Eucharist: Old Testament: Forshadowing of the Eucharistic sacrifice Gen. 14:18; Psalm 76:2; Psalm 110:4; Malachi 1:11; Exodus 12:14,17,24; Jer. 33:18; Zech. 9:15-16; 2 Chron. 26:18. Foreshadowing of the Requirement to Consume the Sacrifice Gen. 22:9-13; Exodus 12:5; Exodus 12:7,22-23; Exodus 12:8,11; Exodus 12:43-45; Ezek. 44:9; Exodus 12:49; Exodus 12:47; Num. 9:12 with John 19:33; Exodus 16:4-36; Neh 9:15; Exodus 24:9-11; Exodus 29:33; Lev. 7:15; 2 Kings 4:43; 2 Chron. 30:15-17; 35:1,6,11,13; Ezek. 6:20-21; Psalm 78:24-25; 105:40; Isaiah 53:7; Wis. 16:20; Sir. 24:21; Ezek. 2:8-10; 3:1-3; Zech. 12:10; Zech. 13:1. New Testament: Jesus promises His Real Presence in the Eucharist: John 6:35,41,48,51; John 6:27,31,49; John 6:51-58; John 6:66-67; Symbolic eating is an insult Isaiah 9:20; 49:26; Mic. 3:3; 2 Sam. 23:17; Rev. 16:6; 17:6, 16; Jesus institutes the Eucharist: Matt. 26:26-28; Mark. 14:22,24; Luke 22;19-20; 1 Cor. 11:24-29; Acts 2:42; Acts 20:28; Matt. 6:11; Luke 11:3 (our daily bread); Luke 14:15; Luke 24:30-31,35; Jesus is connected w/ the pasover sacrifice where the lamb that must be eaten: Matt. 26:2; Mark 14:12; Luke 22:7; John 1:29,36; Acts 8:32; 1 Peter 1:19; Luke 23:4,14; John 18:38; 19:4,6; Heb. 9:14 with Exodus 12:5; John 19:23 with Exodus 28:4 and Lev. 16:4; Passover lambs are sacrificed on the sixth hour: Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; John 19:14 1 Cor. 5:7-8; Heb. 13:15 with Lev. 7:12-15; 22:29-30; John 19:34-35 with Zech 13:1. The Eucharist makes present Jesus' one eternal sacrifice: Heb. 9:23 with Mal. 1:11; Jer. 33:18 and Zech. 9:15; 1 Peter 2:5-6. Jesus in Glory Perpetually Offers the Father His Sacrifice on Our Behalf: Rev. 1:13 with Exodus 28:4; Rev. 3:20; Rev. 5:6; Rev. 7:14; Rev. 19:13; Heb. 7:24; Heb. 13:8

--Confirmation: Acts 8:14-17; Acts 19:5-6; Eph. 1:13; Eph. 4:30; Heb. 6:2; John 6:27; Rev. 9:4; Rev. 14:1 and 22:4.

--Marriage: Gen. 2:20-24; Mal. 2:16; Matt. 19:6; Matt. 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Rom. 7:2-3; 1 Cor. 7:10-11; Matt. 5:31-32; Eph. 5:22-32; 1 Cor. 7:12-15; Ezra 10:1-14; Rev. 19:9.

--Holy Orders: The Elders of the Church are Called "Fathers" and the Faithful "Children": Judges 18:10; Eph. 3:14-15; Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13; 1 Cor. 4:15,17; 2 Cor. 12:14; Phil. 2:22; 1 Thess. 2:11; 1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3; Titus 1:4; Philemon 10; Heb. 12:7,9; 1 Peter 5:13; 1 John 2:1,13,14; 1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4; 1 Macc. 2:65. The Lord, Mary, the Apostles and Others Refer to Spiritual Leaders as "Fathers": Matt. 3:9; Luke 3:8; Mark 11:10; Luke 1:32; Luke 1:55; Luke 1:73; Luke 16:24,30; John 4:12; John 7:22; John 8:56; Acts 3:13,25; 5:30; Acts 4:25; Acts 7:11-12, 15,19,38,44-45,51-52; Acts 7:32; Acts 13:17,32,36; 24:14; 26:6; 28:17,25; Acts 22:3; Acts 22:14; Rom. 4:1; Rom. 4:16-17; Rom. 9:10; 1 Cor. 10:1; Gal. 1:14; 2 Tim. 1:3; Heb. 1:1; Heb. 3:9; Heb. 8:9; James 2:21; 1 Peter 1:18; 2 Peter 3:4. Celibacy is Church Practice, Not Dogma: Matt. 19:11-12; Matt. 19:29; Matt. 22:30; 1 Cor 7:7; 1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38; 1 Tim. 5:9-12; 2 Tim. 2:3-4; Rev. 14:4; Isaiah 56:3-7; Jer. 16:1-4

--Anointing of the Sick:Mark 6:13; James 5:14-15;

Show where the sins have different degrees.

--1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48; Matt. 5:19

Did the Catholic church condem or confirm the Book of Enoch.

--the Church didn't "condem" anything. She just said that it wasn't inspired.

the biblical proof has now been presented. i say again that if u will click on the links i provided earlier, all of these verses will be alot easier to understand, as will it be easier to see exactly why each verse is provided. at the site, the verses are grouped by what they are attempting to prove. it will be much easier for you to click on the links. but, if this is what u insist on receiving, then i wish you luck as you look up each and every one of these scripture verses.

your rebuttal?

Edited February 9, 2004 by phatcatholic

[foundsheep]

Thats probably not good enough for him phatcatholic, Its out of a real Bible.

[phatcatholic]

Thats probably not good enough for him phatcatholic, Its out of a real Bible.

if that's not good enough, nothing is!!

we shall see.....

[M.SIGGA]

bump... just in case you forgot Truth.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Yeah Larry. I appreciated your reply and spent a good amount of time giving you a thoughtful reply. I hope you at least read it, I know it's a bit long.

I actually went to a novus ordo Mass instead of the Tridentine because I was determined to give you a thorough and promt response!

[Laudate_Dominum]

I was hoping one of you protestants out there would be so kind as to engage my previous posts on this thread. I often tire of waiting for Larry to come back.

Thanks guys!

[Laudate_Dominum]

btw, it's all on page four. thx

[Laudate_Dominum]

:punk:

[phatcatholic]

larry, we await ur response to the biblical information that i provided for you. Good Luck and God Bless You in your search for Truth,

phatcatholic

[littleflower+JMJ]

you CM guys are amesome! :cool:

[phatcatholic]

thanks flowery! i am sheep, and i do all things thru God who strengthens me.

btw, Larry, i await ur response to my post of scriptural proof.

pax christi,

phatcatholic

[Laudate_Dominum]

hehe, sorry for the somewhat flamboyant speech in some of my posts. hehe

If I could edit them I think I would change a few things, although this is funny:

Are you so blind to the Word of God Larry?? The Gospel is a message of love and inner transformation, not a psychological feel-good assurance of salvation that puts no demands on one's life to change and cooperate with God in love and truth. You preach a false gospel and do not hear the Word of God in the Bible! Take off the deranged mind of Martin Luther and put on the mind of Christ!