Habit Options..

[Carmelitess]

I was wondering if anybody knew what the OCD Carmelite habit was made of---tunic, veil, toque, etc. I think I heard that they used to have a wool tunic, but I would like to know what the nuns wear now.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334552' date='Jul 19 2007, 06:40 AM']Oh, Lauren, I'm so sorry. When you said habit I was thinking about the tunic, especially because I just learned that the active sisters make it differently with pleats and creases in the skirt part.

Yes, for some reason, the friars love that crease down the center but it's not offically part of the habit. The horizontal creases come as a result of folding the scapular. The crease in the guimpe comes because it's easier to fold it and press it.

The habit, when it was all wool, used to be folded, not hung because it would stretch if hung.
As to the crease in the cape (or the friars capuce) representing the open book of the Gospel, well, that's a lovely sentiment but none of the creases are in the habit for those sort of reasons in the same way that the habits of later centuries had tucks and creases with all sorts of spiritual meaning. (One order had 53 pleats in the skirt for each hail Mary!)

Our habits are poly/rayon or now poly/wool (I ran out of the other stuff) and in the summer they are poly/cotton poplin so I would think that the steamer would be fine. Even if it was just a matter of pressing scapulars only it would be great. Our pressers are VERY old and ready to break down for good![/quote]

Now we're on the same page! That is so interesting about the open Gospel. Very symbolic. I love learning about these traditions

I like Rowenta steamers, by the way

[quote]I was wondering if anybody knew what the OCD Carmelite habit was made of---tunic, veil, toque, etc. I think I heard that they used to have a wool tunic, but I would like to know what the nuns wear now.[/quote]

I am by no means qualified to answer this question in a broad sense. But I do know one young woman who was an aspirant with us at OLAM, who was formerly a Carmelite nun (I should say novice) in Canada. She did tell us quite a bit about [i]their[/i] habit, and it was made of wool. She said that in earlier days, their habits were made of very thick wool and they only washed them once a year, so when the sisters took them off they could literally stand up on their own they were so stiff... and she wasn't exaggerating! Quite amazing

Edited July 19, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1334794' date='Jul 19 2007, 02:43 PM']Now we're on the same page! That is so interesting about the open Gospel. Very symbolic. I love learning about these traditions

I like Rowenta steamers, by the way
I am by no means qualified to answer this question in a broad sense. But I do know one young woman who was an aspirant with us at OLAM, who was formerly a Carmelite nun (I should say novice) in Canada. She did tell us quite a bit about [i]their[/i] habit, and it was made of wool. She said that in earlier days, their habits were made of very thick wool and they only washed them once a year, so when the sisters took them off they could literally stand up on their own they were so stiff... and she wasn't exaggerating! Quite amazing [/quote]


Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty!

Here they washed the wool habits something like 4 times a year. I heard that when we washed the habits of the brethren who returned from the mission work the habits stood by themselves, too!

I think some OCD monasteries still use wool and others don't. It's so expensive! That's the problem.

We had to wear wool (no less than 51%) up until the 70's but they changed that in the constitutions because wool was no longer the fabric of the poor but of the rich!

[sunnysideup]

[quote name='veritas99' post='1334140' date='Jul 18 2007, 06:53 PM']These Sisters ran the all girl high school I went to in Illinois. Some of the older sisters on the faculty kind of wore the habit others did not. But the ones that did not you could at least tell they weren't lay people. Their theology was very skewed and way too social justicey ( I'm making up words) but I am greatful for being exposed to Dominican's at VERITAS!!!!! even though they did not really teach the truth. It's just a good reminder how important it is for us to pray for all religious.[/quote]

If you dont' mind me asking, what was the name of your school? It sounds very similar to mine.

[jkaands]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334950' date='Jul 19 2007, 02:45 PM']Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty!

Here they washed the wool habits something like 4 times a year. I heard that when we washed the habits of the brethren who returned from the mission work the habits stood by themselves, too!

I think some OCD monasteries still use wool and others don't. It's so expensive! That's the problem.

We had to wear wool (no less than 51%) up until the 70's but they changed that in the constitutions because wool was no longer the fabric of the poor but of the rich![/quote]

...if you read the 'why I left the convent' literature from the 50's onwards, starting with 'I Leap Over The Wall' by an Englishwoman who left a cloistered English convent after many years, you'll find a recurring theme of how dirty the ex-nuns and their habits were. There was a prudish, Jansenist thread in the rules and constitutions of many of the orders, especially those founded in France in the 19th c. They couldn't bathe very often, they had to wear 'bathing' clothes when they did bathe, and they couldn't wash parts of their outfits very often--the Daughters of Wisdom, who had a beautiful habit, also had a crinoline of some kind under their gown, which they were permitted to wash [b]once a year[/b]. My suspicion is that some of the orders with the most antiquated rules and most oppressive habits were those whose members were the first to throw them out, and many of the older sisters now who wear civvies are from those days. The younger members may be able introduce a common-sense habit into these orders.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1335869' date='Jul 20 2007, 07:59 PM']...if you read the 'why I left the convent' literature from the 50's onwards, starting with 'I Leap Over The Wall' by an Englishwoman who left a cloistered English convent after many years, you'll find a recurring theme of how dirty the ex-nuns and their habits were. There was a prudish, Jansenist thread in the rules and constitutions of many of the orders, especially those founded in France in the 19th c. They couldn't bathe very often, they had to wear 'bathing' clothes when they did bathe, and they couldn't wash parts of their outfits very often--the Daughters of Wisdom, who had a beautiful habit, also had a crinoline of some kind under their gown, which they were permitted to wash [b]once a year[/b]. My suspicion is that some of the orders with the most antiquated rules and most oppressive habits were those whose members were the first to throw them out, and many of the older sisters now who wear civvies are from those days. The younger members may be able introduce a common-sense habit into these orders.[/quote]

I knew a woman who was in a convent for a very short period of time in the forties or so. She had to wear a nightgown type thing when bathing as well.

I do think there were some Jansenist ideals insofar as habits were concerned. The solution was obviously not to throw them out all together, but you make a good point: That perhaps the newer generations will bring back common-sense habits.

I love the mendicants for always having simple habits

[DiscerningSoul]

If you watch the movie 'Threase' you see them washing what looks to be thier habits in a wash pool.
With washing machines and dryers, I would at least think they could wash the habits more?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334950' date='Jul 19 2007, 09:45 PM']Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty![/quote]

Really?! I don't understand how the Tyburn can get away with washing their habits only twice a year. Especially as they're WHITE. And what if you're doing hard work in the house, like scrubbing floors? I don't see how being smelly and dirty adds anything to your devotional life.

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1334950' date='Jul 19 2007, 04:45 PM']Thanks for the steamer info

I know that some PCC's and the Tyburn Benedictines in London wash their habits only twice a year! UGH! I can see when there were no washing machines and with wool if you wash them too much they'll shrink. We wash ours every 2 weeks and by the middle of the second week my habit is SOOO dirty!

Here they washed the wool habits something like 4 times a year. I heard that when we washed the habits of the brethren who returned from the mission work the habits stood by themselves, too!

I think some OCD monasteries still use wool and others don't. It's so expensive! That's the problem.

We had to wear wool (no less than 51%) up until the 70's but they changed that in the constitutions because wool was no longer the fabric of the poor but of the rich![/quote]


Thanks for the info, Sister Mary Catherine and Lauren! I sure hope that the nuns at the monastery I eventually enter wash their habits often! I'm surprised the habits of the Carmelite nuns Lauren mentioned didn't get up and walk to the washing basin themselves.

Do nuns wear the same habit every day, or do they have two or three? The nuns I've seen on EWTN or in photographs always look as if they're wearing clean clothes, so....

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1335869' date='Jul 20 2007, 08:59 PM']...if you read the 'why I left the convent' literature from the 50's onwards, starting with 'I Leap Over The Wall' by an Englishwoman who left a cloistered English convent after many years, you'll find a recurring theme of how dirty the ex-nuns and their habits were. There was a prudish, Jansenist thread in the rules and constitutions of many of the orders, especially those founded in France in the 19th c. They couldn't bathe very often, they had to wear 'bathing' clothes when they did bathe, and they couldn't wash parts of their outfits very often--the Daughters of Wisdom, who had a beautiful habit, also had a crinoline of some kind under their gown, which they were permitted to wash [b]once a year[/b]. My suspicion is that some of the orders with the most antiquated rules and most oppressive habits were those whose members were the first to throw them out, and many of the older sisters now who wear civvies are from those days. The younger members may be able introduce a common-sense habit into these orders.[/quote]


That is so interesting, JKaands! I'm so glad that the cleanliness practices of nuns have changed!

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1336635' date='Jul 21 2007, 03:49 PM']Thanks for the info, Sister Mary Catherine and Lauren! I sure hope that the nuns at the monastery I eventually enter wash their habits often! I'm surprised the habits of the Carmelite nuns Lauren mentioned didn't get up and walk to the washing basin themselves.

Do nuns wear the same habit every day, or do they have two or three? The nuns I've seen on EWTN or in photographs always look as if they're wearing clean clothes, so....[/quote]
My community has 2 habits-- one nice one and one dirty one. Each sister has a "laundry day" when they can take their clothes to the laundry and the sisters there will wash all the laundry. (I hear they are miracle-makers with stains! I imagine we wash our habit when it is dirty or starts to smell. We have a very low-maintenance habit-- wool and cotton blend. We just wash it on cold and let it air dry, and there you go!

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1336635' date='Jul 21 2007, 03:49 PM']Do nuns wear the same habit every day, or do they have two or three? The nuns I've seen on EWTN or in photographs always look as if they're wearing clean clothes, so....[/quote]


The PCPAs in Hanceville (which are the nuns you probably see through EWTN) have two habits Having [i]brown[/i] habits helps keep the appearance of cleanliness even when they're kinda dirty. However, aprons are a BIG must - the seamstresses at OLAM stress the use of aprons during all work periods!

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' post='1336654' date='Jul 21 2007, 04:18 PM']The PCPAs in Hanceville (which are the nuns you probably see through EWTN) have two habits Having [i]brown[/i] habits helps keep the appearance of cleanliness even when they're kinda dirty. However, aprons are a BIG must - the seamstresses at OLAM stress the use of aprons during all work periods![/quote]
Ya, those help a lot.

[Carmelitess]

[quote name='be_thou_my_vision' post='1336642' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:04 PM']My community has 2 habits-- one nice one and one dirty one. Each sister has a "laundry day" when they can take their clothes to the laundry and the sisters there will wash all the laundry. (I hear they are miracle-makers with stains! I imagine we wash our habit when it is dirty or starts to smell. We have a very low-maintenance habit-- wool and cotton blend. We just wash it on cold and let it air dry, and there you go![/quote]


Wool and cotton is a very nice combo! I love natural fabrics that breathe.

Btw, do most nuns at least get to wash their undergarments frequently? I can understand that big aprons would take care of the cleanliness of the tunic, but what do they do about the b.o in the undergarments? Does everything that goes under the habit get to be clean every day---all garments that are close to the skin?

Also, does anybody know if most Carmelite nuns bathe daily?

[be_thou_my_vision]

[quote name='Carmelitess' post='1336679' date='Jul 21 2007, 05:19 PM']Wool and cotton is a very nice combo! I love natural fabrics that breathe.

Btw, do most nuns at least get to wash their undergarments frequently? I can understand that big aprons would take care of the cleanliness of the tunic, but what do they do about the b.o in the undergarments? Does everything that goes under the habit get to be clean every day---all garments that are close to the skin?

Also, does anybody know if most Carmelite nuns bathe daily?[/quote]
Under our habits, we wear a white t-shirt and a slip, and yes, those are clean. We get up to 7 white shirts and 3-4 slips, and like I said, we get to do laundry every week. So that stuff gets cleaned. And of course we wear clean undergarments.
The Carmelite nuns in Terre Haute, IN bathe daily. When I was discerning with them, I asked that same question.
I'm pretty finicky about hygiene, so all these questions were high on my list.