The Pagan Christ

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Does the cult of Horus prove that Christianity is false?

Some parallels between Horus and Jesus Christ:

1. Horus born of a virgin. <> Jesus born of a virgin.

2. The foster father of Horus was Seb or Seph. <> Jesus was fostered by Joseph.

3. Horus was of royal descent. <> Jesus was of royal descent.

4. Horus birth accompanied by three solar deities [star gazers] who followed by the morning star of Sirius bearing gifts. <> Jesus birth accompanied by three wise men [Zoroastrian star gazers] who followed by a star “in the east” bearing gifts.

5. The birth of Horus announced by angels. <> The birth of Jesus announced by angels.

6. Herut tried to murder the infant Horus. <> Herod slaughtered every first born in an attempt to kill Jesus the forthcoming messiah.

7. Horus is baptized at age 30 by Anup the Baptiser at a river. <> Jesus is baptized at age 30 by John the Baptist at a river.

8. Horus resists temptation by the evil Sut [Sut was to be the precursor for the Hebrew Satan] on a high mountain. <> Jesus resists temptation by Satan on a high mountain.

9. Horus had 12 followers. <> Jesus had 12 disciples.

10. Horus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water. <> Jesus performed miracles like healing the sick and walking on water.

11. Horus raised someone from the grave [his father Osiris] <> Jesus raised Lazarus [notice the name similarity] from the grave. Lazarus is short for Elasarus - the “us” on the end is romanized. Elasarus was derived from “El-Asar” which was the name given to Osiris.

12. Horus was buried and resurrected in the city of Anu. <> The place Bethany mentioned in John was a derivative of the words “Bet” and “Anu” which translates “the house of Anu”. The ‘y’ on the end of bethany is interchangeable with the letter ‘u’.

13. Horus was killed by crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified.

14. Horus was accompanied by two thieves at the crucifixtion. <> Jesus was crucified with two thieves.

15. Horus was buried in a tomb at Anu. <> Jesus was buried in a tomb located in Bethany [Bet-Anu].

16. Horus was resurrected after 3 days. <> Jesus was “said” to resurrected after over a period of three days.

17. The resurrection of Horus was announced by three women. <> The resurrection of Jesus was announced by three women.

18. Horus was given the titel KRST which means “anointed one” <> Jesus was given the title Christ [Christos] meaning “anointed one”

19. Horus was considered the Good Shepherd amongst other names identified as a falcon to watch over shepherds, flocks and other grazing cattle. <> Jesus was called the Good Shepherd amongst other names the same for Horus.

20. Horus is associated with fish and is linked with the star sign Pisces. <> Jesus is also associated with fish [and fishermen] and has Pisces as his star sign.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Advocatus Diaboli

[Laudate_Dominum]

There is not a religion truly comparable to Christianity which has Horus at its center (Horusianity? hehe), but in fact Horus is a name that we can find related to a vast host of Egyptian stories and cults over thousands of years (of course the figure of a bird-headed god is the most common denominator). A superficial (and in many cases totally inaccurate) list of "parallels" like this is extremely misleading and amateurish. It looks as though someone gleaned some book on the history of Horus-type myth and cult in an attempt to glean any fanciful parallel that they could find-- that's cheap.

Rather than critique that goofy list line by line I'll just quote a pithy post of mine from the last time I posted in a thread on this topic. The links contained in this post should suffice if one is very interesting in this subject.

[quote]Yeah, there are common motifs among all mythology and religion. While it would be absurd to say that the Gospels “copied” Aztec mythology considering the geographical gap between them, yet people have asserted this with myths closer in proximity and time to that of Christ, despite the obvious fallacy in this thinking. The main problem I have with this is that it is radically superficial. It fails to recognize the categorical difference between the Gospels and the various myths and pagan religions. The life of Christ was a real historical event, and we have the testimony of witnesses, and the character of the Christian religion is essentially different from that of the pagan religions. There is much that could be said about this.
And there is a profound significance to the fact that the earthly life of Christ fulfills the age-old religious yearnings of mankind. In popular literature, C.S. Lewis has said some interesting stuff about this (The Golden Bough, a classic text on this subject was one of his favourite books). Chesterton has some cool insights as well. There is a lot of other stuff that one could read if you are quite interested in the subject.

Anyway, in the meantime perhaps some links will help satiate your curiosity? This should keep you busy for a while. Holla back if you wanna talk more about this stuff or need more links.

[url="http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat.html"]http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat.html[/url]
[url="http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html"]http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycatwho1.html[/url]
[url="http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat2.html"]http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat2.html[/url]

[url="http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html"]http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html[/url]
[url="http://www.tektonics.org/harpur01.html"]http://www.tektonics.org/harpur01.html[/url]
[url="http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/pagint.html"]http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/pagint.html[/url]
[url="http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html"]http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html[/url]
[url="http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html"]http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html[/url]

[url="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/pagan1.html"]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/pagan1.html[/url]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/pagan2.html"]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/pagan2.html[/url]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/pagan3.html"]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5743/pagan3.html[/url]
[url="http://members.aol.com/jasonte2/myths.htm"]http://members.aol.com/jasonte2/myths.htm[/url]


You might wanna read up on horus and all those peeps to see the errors inherent in these claims:
[url="http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/horus.htm"]http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/horus.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.egyptianmyths.net/horus.htm"]http://www.egyptianmyths.net/horus.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/horus.html"]http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/horus.html[/url][/quote]

[Advocatus Diaboli]

I accept defeat, that was fast, good job Advocatus Dei, aka Laudate Dominum.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Advocatus Diaboli' post='1331992' date='Jul 17 2007, 03:13 AM']I accept defeat, that was fast, good job Advocatus Dei, aka Laudate Dominum.[/quote]
Sweet! hehe

Advocatus Dei.. I like that.

Just for fun I thought I'd post a little something for people's reading pleasure.

[quote]Jesus & Horus??

[i]1. Was born of the virgin Isis-Meri in December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men?[/i]
I have found no reference to a cave/manger -- Frazer [Fraz.AAO, 8] has Horus born in the swamps, and knows nothing about a star or Wise Men, of any number.

...Horus was NOT born of a virgin at all. Indeed, one ancient Egyptian relief depicts this conception by showing his mother Isis in a falcon form, hovering over an erect phallus of a dead and prone Osiris in the Underworld (EOR, s.v. "Phallus"). And the Dec 25 issue is of no relevance to us--nowhere does the NT associate this date with Jesus' birth at all.
Indeed, the description of the conception of Horus will show exactly the sexual elements that characterize pagan 'miracle births', as noted by the scholars earlier:

[i]"But after she [i.e., Isis] had brought it [i.e. Osiris' body] back to Egypt, Seth managed to get hold of Osiris's body again and cut it up into fourteen parts, which she scattered all over Egypt. Then Isis went out to search for Osiris a second time and buried each part where she found it (hence the many tombs of Osiris tht exist in Egypt). The only part that she did not find was the god's penis, for Seth had thrown it into the river, where it had been eaten by a fish; Isis therefore fashioned a substitute penis to put in its place. She had also had sexual intercourse with Osisis after his death, which resulted in the conception and birth of his posthumous son, Harpocrates, Horus-the-child. Osiris became king of the netherworld, and Horus proceeded to fight with Seth..." [CANE:2:1702; emphasis mine] [BTW, the Hebrew word 'satan' is not a 'cognate' of the name 'seth' by any means: "The root *STN is not evidenced in any of the cognate languages in texts that are prior to or contemporary with its occurrences in the Hebrew Bible" DDD, s.v. 1369f][/i]

The one reference I have found to a birth of Horus has him born on the 31st day of the Egyptian month of Khoiak -- the mythers have a one in 365 chance that this matches Dec. 25th! Achy adds, with Massey as a likely source, the claim that on the walls of the Luxor Temple is a scene showing the "Annunciation, Immaculate Conception, Birth and Adoration of Horus, with Thoth announcing to the Virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus; with Kenph, the 'Holy Ghost,' impregnating the virgin," complete with three wise men. For some reason neither Achy nor Massey provide a name or number for this carving, or a location any more specific than the Luxor Temple, which is a rather huge place that is inaccessible to most of Achy's readers. When pressed by an inquirer at her site, Achy plays word games -- "Isis is the constellation of Virgo the Virgin, as well as the Moon, which becomes a 'virgin' during when it is new. The sun god - in this case, Horus - is born of this Virgin goddess." -- and alludes to a document from the 6th century AD! No substantiation is offered for the Isis-Virgo connection at all; it has no more authority than saying "Isis is Gomer the prostitute." If such a carving exists it is only what Achy thinks it is via the interpretation of Massey. (A writer recently sent this description from an Egyptian tour site: "Kingship was believed to be ordained by the gods at the beginning of time in accordance with ma'at., the well-ordered state, truth, justice, cosmic order. The reigning king was also the physical son of the Creator sun-god. This divine conception and birth was recorded on the walls of Luxor Temple, at Deir el-Bahri, and other royal cult temples throughout Egypt. The king was also an incarnation of the dynastic god Horus, and when deceased, the king was identified with the father of Horus, Osiris. This living king was thus a unique entity, the living incarnation of deity, divinely chosen intermediary, who could act as priest for the entire nation, reciting the prayers, dedicating the sacrifices...A peristyle forecourt of Amenhotep III is fused with the hypostyle hall, which is the first room in the inner, originally roofed, part of the temple. This leads to a series of for antechambers with subsidiary rooms. The Birth Room east of the second antechamber is decorated with reliefs showing the symbolic divine birth of Amenhotep III resulting from the union of his mother Mutemwiya and the god Amun. The bark sanctuary includes a free-standing building added by Alexander the Great within the larger chamber created by Amenhotep III. Well-preserved reliefs show Amun's portable bark shrine and other scenes of the king in the presence of the gods. The sanctuary of Amenhotep III is the last room on the central axis of the temple." This is significantly devoid of a virgin conception or birth, wise men, or a Holy Ghost. You might squeeze an adoration out of it, but who does not adore newborns anyway? But now see the trump card, provided by a Skeptic ashamed of Achy's thesis; see [url="http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.htm"]here[/url].)


[i]2. His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").[/i]
Actually Seb was the earth-god, not "earthly," but rather the earth itself (as Nut was the sky), and he was O's dad, not Horus', though one of my helpful researchers tells me there is one version in which Horus was the son of Seb. And don't fall for the etymological trick or treat: You can't get from "Seb" to "Joseph" just by putting the names next to each other.

[i]3. He was of royal descent.[/i] Obviously true, and Horus was often identified with the living Pharaoh, but so commonplace as to be meaningless.

[i]4. At age 12 he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years. Was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iaurutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" (John the Baptist) who was decapitated. [/i]

[i]He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "AAn" (the two "Johns").[/i] Egyptian religion scholars know of none of this. On this last Miller notes:
...my research in the academic literature does not surface this fact. I can find references to FOUR "disciples"--variously called the semi-divine HERU-SHEMSU ("Followers of Horus") [GOE:1.491]. I can find references to SIXTEEN human followers (GOE:1.196). And I can find reference to an UNNUMBERED group of followers called mesniu/mesnitu ("blacksmiths") who accompanied Horus in some of his battles [GOE:1.475f; although these might be identified with the HERU-SHEMSU in GOE:1.84]. But I cannot find TWELVE anywhere... Horus is NOT the sun-god (that's Re), so we cannot use the 'all solar gods have twelve disciples--in the Zodiac' routine here.]

[i]5. He performed miracles, exorcized demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris") from the dead.[/i] Miller notes:
Miracle stories abound, even among religious groups that could not possibly have influenced one another, such as Latin American groups (e.g. Aztecs) and Roman MR's, so this 'similarity' carries no force. The reference to this specific resurrection I cannot find ANYWHERE in the scholarly literature. I have looked under all forms of the name to no avail. The fact that something so striking is not even mentioned in modern works of Egyptology indicates its questionable status. It simply cannot be adduced as data without SOME real substantiation. The closest thing to it I can find is in Horus' official funerary role, in which he "introduces" the newly dead to Osirus and his underworld kingdom. In the Book of the Dead, for example, Horus introduces the newly departed Ani to Osirus, and asks Osirus to accept and care for Ani (GOE:1.490).

[i]6. Horus walked on water.[/i] Not that I have found, but he was thrown in the water (see below).

[i]7. His personal epithet was "Iusa" the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was called the "Holy Child."[/i] Miller says:
This fact has likewise escaped me and my research. I have looked at probably 50 epithets of the various Horus deities, and most major indices of the standard Egyptology reference works and come up virtually empty-handed. I can find a city named "Iusaas" [GOE:1.85], a pre-Islamic Arab deity by the name of "Iusaas", thought by some to be the same as the Egyptian god Tehuti/Thoth [GOE:2.289], and a female counterpart to Tem, named "Iusaaset" [GOE:1.354]. But no reference to Horus as being "Iusa"... ]

[i]8. He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."
9. Horus was transfigured on the Mount.
10. He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, was resurrected. [/i]
None of these three can be found, either. On the last Miller writes:
I can find no references to Horus EVER dying, until he later becomes "merged" with Re the Sun god, after which he 'dies' and is 'reborn' every single day as the sun rises. And even in this 'death', there is no reference to a tomb anywhere...
I found in Budge one idea that Horus had died and been cast in pieces in the water, and his parts were fished out by Sebek the crocodile god at Isis' request. But that's a funny sort of baptism at best (see above). Another source notes a story where Horus is bitten by a snake and revived, which is still not much of a parallel.

[i]11. Titles: Way, the Truth the Light; Messiah; God's Anointed Son; Son of Man; Good Shepherd; Lamb of God; Word made flesh; Word of Truth.[/i]
I found thesed titles: [Bud.ERR, 78] Great God, Chief of the Powers, Master of Heaven, Avenger of His Father (since he beat up Set, who "killed" Osiris). He may have been called rightly "Son of Man" as the son of royalty (see here) but I have found no evidence for this.

[i]12. Was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion. 13. He came to fulfill the Law. 14. Was called "the KRST" or "Anointed One." 15. Was supposed to reign one thousand years. [/i]
I have found no evidence for any of these last four.

Conclusion: This one seems to be full of ringers so far, and it's high time the mythicists backed these up with more than third-hand sabre-rattling from the Barbara Walkers and the Gerald Masseys. So I challenge them now to come up with the gods -- er, goods. Any takers?

Extracted from [url="http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html"]http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/osy.html[/url][/quote]

[Advocatus Diaboli]

I will have to finish reading this tomorrow, but what I've read so far is damning for the anti-christians who actually support such a theory, I can not stay awake any longer, must sleep!

I just noticed this sn is number 6,631... 6+6+3+1= huh... minus two... which means nothing really lol

But no really Advocatus Diaboli is just a character to invoke thought.

Sleep will be good perhaps tomorrow I can count...

Edited July 17, 2007 by Advocatus Diaboli

[Paddington]

EDIT: That's all you need to know.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Paddington

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1332000' date='Jul 17 2007, 03:57 AM']EDIT: That's all you need to know.[/quote]

[123]

Why does this seem to be a reoccurring factor in past and present world religions? Is it coincidence? Satan? Or sufferers trying to reach out to the religion of Truth?

[u]A List of Religion that hold this similarity[/u]


Egyptian
Buddhism
Hinduism
Voodun/Voodoo
wiccanism (radical branches)
mysticism (radical branches)
Aryanism (not the one Hitler formed)

and there is probably more than that.

So why? Is it showing us that they can possibly be saved through Christ? The Lord moves is mysterious ways. Or is this them mocking Christianity? Or, do they not have any relations at all and its just coincidence?

[Archaeology cat]

One should also note that the myths of Horus are by no means monolithic and changed quite a bit from the Old Kingdom to the New Kingdom to the Roman period. As was mentioned, Horus was not born of a virgin, though he was conceived after the death of his father, Osiris (who was resurrected by Anubis, the god of embalming, long enough to impregnate Isis).

In the Old Kingdom Seth (or whatever spelling you choose to use) was considered to be the enemy of Osiris & Horus (since it was he who killed Osiris & cut him into 14 pieces). By the New Kingdom this stigma was gone, and so you have pharaohs named after him (Seti, for example).

I've never heard of the Good Shepherd epithet being attached to Horus (not saying that it didn't happen, just not in the Old Kingdom). The Good Shepherd, however, was a quite common motif in the Roman world which was then transformed into a Christian image.

[Cow of Shame]

Were Abraham Lincoln & JFK [i]the same man[/i], doomed to relive the same life?

Oh noes!!

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.

Both of their wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.

Both were shot in the head.
Both were shot with one bullet.

Both were rumored to be killed in a conspiracy.
Neither was confirmed to be a conspiracy.

Lincoln was shot in the Ford Theater.
Kennedy was shot in a card made by the Ford Motor Company (a Lincoln no less)

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.

Both were succeeded by Southerners.
Both successors were named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.
Their first names both contain six letters.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.
Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names comprise fifteen letters.

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Both assassins were assassinated before their trials.

The only complete filming of Kennedy's assasination was shot by Abraham Zapruder.
The only complete account of Lincoln's assasination was written by John Zelfindorfer.

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was with friends in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with his friend Marilyn Monroe.

[jckinsman]

Crazy man! .............but the whole "Zapruder" "Zelfindorfer" is a stretch don't you think?????????

[Farsight one]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1339473' date='Jul 24 2007, 02:43 AM'] Crazy man! .............but the whole "Zapruder" "Zelfindorfer" is a stretch don't you think?????????[/quote]Not really, since it was JOHN who should (Abraham)Lincoln, and it was ABRAHAM who shot (John)Kennedy.


And someone please pin this. I'm coming across atheists who bring up Horus A LOT lately.

[abercius24]

I have thought a long time about this Horus parallel. An explanation came to me one day when I was studying the Hebrew geneologies. Egypt, the patriarch ancestor of the Egyptians was a grandson to Noah. Noah as we know from the scriptures, was a prophet. Though we don't have much record of Noah sharing prophecy of the things to come, it is quite likely that he may have had some divine conception of the manner in which salvation would occur. If he had taught such prophetic mysteries to his children and grandchildren, it is likely Egypt was privy to some prophecy of Christ's coming. Given that Egypt rebelled against his family -- and the Lord, he may have incorporated some of those religious concepts into the pagan worship he developed for his own people. You may think that prophecies of Christ's coming may have been a bit early in Noah's time, but you would be wrong. The Protoevangelium -- the First Gospel -- was preached by God himself after the Fall of Adam and Eve; prophecying that the Son of the Woman would come to crush the head of the serpant -- a prophecy we now know refers to Christ and Blessed Mother overcoming the power of sin and death. Christian prophecy is found from beginning to end in the Bible, and since Egypt was a part of this whole series of events, we can say his people likely deluted a form of that prophecy for themselves. If it was in fact more specific then we believe, then the Egyptians would have unknowingly had a version of the coming of Christ as part of their culture. It's a theory, but one I believe to be based on many other facts.

Steve S.
Editor of CatholicQandA.com

[Laudate_Dominum]

Before anyone ponders the "Horus parallel" too deeply one should first come to terms with how substantially bogus these parallels are in the first place.

Advocatus Diaboli posted twenty parallels between Jesus and Horus. The problem is that the majority of this list is complete fiction of almost lower than Jack Chick quality. Whatever true parallels remain after stripping this list of the nonsense is mostly banal and meaningless anyway.

The more interesting approach to me would simply be the many themes that are common to much that could be considered religious. I'm not saying that the general subject of mythic-religious parallels is uninteresting or completely absurd (comparative religion and the history of religion is something that I enjoy immensely in fact), but these kind of silly lists are certainly absurd.

The reason this is particularly popular these days is because there are a number of really bad propaganda pieces in circulation at the moment which present these asinine parallels as if they are fact.

Seriously, I don't care how "professional" or "scholarly" the website or video appears -- don't buy into this kind of carp without first verifying the claims against real scholarship. It is amazing what some people can get away with in terms of fabricating outlandish lies and having the masses gobble them up. My first couple of posts should provide enough information for one to get started in seriously examining these kind of claims.

[XIX]

[quote name='Farsight one' post='1339484' date='Jul 24 2007, 02:23 AM']Not really, since it was JOHN who should (Abraham)Lincoln, and it was ABRAHAM who shot (John)Kennedy.
And someone please pin this. I'm coming across atheists who bring up Horus A LOT lately.[/quote]
I concur.