T-Bone _ Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1333414' date='Jul 17 2007, 11:52 PM']When people ask me why I practice Patrickism, I explain that it is a way for GOD to recognize me and that it is the only religion tailored just for me.[/quote] That is where Catholicism differs. Catholicism is about recognizing God, not about God recognizing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirsap Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1332046' date='Jul 17 2007, 11:23 PM']I think I made need to clarify my query. I hold to one of the possible beliefs that we are all eternal and that we may have all self-existed (like GOD) except that GOD was the first and may have had more time to “develop” than other entities. I do not believe that any human begins their existence in the physical realm but originates in the spiritual realm before choosing a physical existence (therefore qualifying us all as gods). Here’s where I may need further understanding from you: Could not the soul that is self existing (by nature) be distinguishable by the different moment that it self-existed? Just like no two humans are born at the same time and the same place in a physical existence, could there be some some distinguishable traits to separate it from other entities (possibly by frequency)?[/quote] [b]I hold to one of the possible beliefs that we are all eternal and that we may have all self-existed (like GOD) except that GOD was the first and may have had more time to “develop” than other entities.[/b] Unless I'm misunderstanding, I only need to reiterate what was mentioned in my previous post: any development with regard to a self-existent is a contradictory notion, as self-existence consists in Pure Actuality, or Pure Being. With no potentiality to become something it is not/has not already. Also, with God being the first and having more time to develop; with self-existence, there is no before or after, and coming into existence. Even presuming multiple self-existent entities, each would have the same time, so to speak. [b]Could not the soul that is self existing (by nature) be distinguishable by the different moment that it self-existed? Just like no two humans are born at the same time and the same place in a physical existence, could there be some some distinguishable traits to separate it from other entities (possibly by frequency)?[/b] Human nature is not something that exists without some entity possessing it. That is why this nature can be said to be true as applying to multiple human beings. God, however, [i]is[/i] His Nature, and hence it cannot be something possessed by a variety of entities. God IS Pure Being; the two terms are indistinguishable in what they point to. This Nature therefore cannot be said to be true of multiple entities. Also, the moment we assume multiple self-existent entities, we again have the impossible task of trying to get some distinguishable attribute so there is individuality. This can't be done, as Pure Being cannot exist in different states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1330655' date='Jul 16 2007, 08:35 AM']Our path is better because the other path leads to, well...[/quote] tacos, so very tasty and good for you,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 [quote name='XIX' post='1333492' date='Jul 18 2007, 05:50 AM']tacos, so very tasty and good for you,.[/quote] In the realm of tacos, so very tasty and good for you,, it is better to be the tacer than the tacee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) [quote]Also wanted to say that I found your comments in Post #25 interesting but how do we account for our past physical existences and what do these accumulated experiences have on the spirit soul’s individuality (if any).[/quote] The same way we do in the flesh, it is a record in our minds. This is what relates the spirit body to the soul, since Plato's original image of the soul had to do with the mind. As for past existences, the spirit body theory doesn't work with reincarnation or spirit transmigration. I'll tell you why, your spirit body looks like what you look like now (outside of all the human stuff, weight, disease, etc.) how can it transmigrate into a different body that doesn't look like itself. That almost appears as "spirit possession." Think of soma pneumatikon as a spiritual copy of the body you have now. It is currently considered gnostic by a majority of the Catholic Christian community, but this is the best description of what it is (below). I caution you, be very careful in your search about this. They have taken the ancient meaning of this and added it to Hindu, Buddhist, and New Age stuff. However, this description was from www.gnosticteachings.org, still be careful. From Greek Soma Pneuma eikon: Soma meaning body; Pneuma (spirit), and ikon derives from Eikōn meaning image. Literally, the Spirit Body Image. "It is sown a soul body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a soul body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." - 1 Corinthians 15: 44, 45 As for what you posted earlier. Even though you can speculate on what is inside the body, spiritual wise, you still cannot award the title of a soul, godhood. The soul may be flawless, but not on its own power. God had to breath life into us, in Genesis (Genesis 2:7), and Christ had to re-image that in the 20th Chapter of John. (John 20:21) powers, souls, spirits, and even if you wanted to used the soma pneumatikon theory all has to be empowered by an outside force. The question you must ask is this. If we are all demi-gods then God, the Father, would not need to exist because we humans have all the god-power we need to keep the universe in line, so therefore, who put those creative souls in us in the first place? Remember, God the creator made us in his image, as smaller creators to have love and compassion. Just because he awarded us those things doesn't make us gods in and of ourselves. Edited July 18, 2007 by GloriaIesusChristi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1333389' date='Jul 18 2007, 01:32 AM']I would think that it is anything a soul can incarnate into (plant, animal, human, fish, insect). One must understand that these are just suits to house the soul. Sort of like those bulky wet suits they used to go underwater with.[/quote] What about bacteria, protozoa, viruses, prions, and others? Are these suitable things to house the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Slime mold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 [quote name='peach_cube' post='1333732' date='Jul 18 2007, 12:51 PM']What about bacteria, protozoa, viruses, prions, and others? Are these suitable things to house the soul.[/quote] Good question but I am not quite sure. If I was to take a guess, I do not think the size or the longevity of life matters to a soul that is incarnating for the experience of Being one of the examples that you memtioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1333946' date='Jul 18 2007, 04:19 PM']Good question but I am not quite sure. If I was to take a guess, I do not think the size or the longevity of life matters to a soul that is incarnating for the experience of Being one of the examples that you memtioned.[/quote] If a virus, bacteria, or prion can be considered as capable vessels does that not mean that our bodies not only house our soul but countless other souls? Assuming that a we have viruses, viruses can be analagous to DNA replication, bacteria help our digestive systems break down foods, or make us sick, white blood cells that can act similarly to bacteria, prions which are strands of proteins that are responsible for mad cow disease, and therefore all other varieties of protein structures that do not harm organism which they are formed and live in, the possibilities of souls found within on vessel could be hundreds of billions. Could a robot that is programmed with the ability to learn be a possible vessel for a soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [quote name='peach_cube' post='1334024' date='Jul 18 2007, 05:25 PM']Could a robot that is programmed with the ability to learn be a possible vessel for a soul?[/quote] I don't believe that souls can possess inanimate objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 [quote name='carrdero' post='1334531' date='Jul 19 2007, 02:52 AM']I don't believe that souls can possess inanimate objects.[/quote] Why not? That seems arbitary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1334533' date='Jul 19 2007, 04:55 AM']Why not? That seems arbitary.[/quote] Why, do you believe that souls inhabit inanimate objects? Edited July 19, 2007 by carrdero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone _ Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 No. I'm just wondering your logic. If a virus has a soul, why not my car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrdero Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) [quote name='T-Bone _' post='1334537' date='Jul 19 2007, 05:04 AM']No. I'm just wondering your logic. If a virus has a soul, why not my car?[/quote] The leather in one's car (if it is real) may have possesed a soul at one time but not as a seat cover. Also I have been known to use car/driver analogies to explain the soul/body relationship bit I am not fond of using these comparisons. Edited July 19, 2007 by carrdero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Uhhh... a seat cover...having a soul? okee dokee. sorry, i can't intelligently argue this, only to say that, seat covers (last time i checked) aren't...alive. leather isn't alive as well. sorry to break it to ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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