Harry Potter

[johnnydigit]

if it's 99% harmless and 1% evil, is it ok? what if it's 90% harmless and 10% evil, is it ok? 70/30? 60/40? 50/50? where do you draw the line? how safe would you want your own children to be?

if you think it's harmless, perhaps you should find out why important officials in our Church feel the way they do. you might be surprised. i don't know the details, but i'll just play it safe and find something else for my nephew and future children.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1330346' date='Jul 15 2007, 11:41 PM']if it's 99% harmless and 1% evil, is it ok? what if it's 90% harmless and 10% evil, is it ok? 70/30? 60/40? 50/50? where do you draw the line? how safe would you want your own children to be?

if you think it's harmless, perhaps you should find out why important officials in our Church feel the way they do. you might be surprised. i don't know the details, but i'll just play it safe and find something else for my nephew and future children.[/quote]


Exactly.

[cappie]

With the fifth instalment of the "Harry Potter" film series released, the debate is bubbling once again over whether the boy wizard is suitable for Christian audiences or the cute face of a more sinister world of the occult that Christians should steer well clear of.

Many ministry leaders in the past have criticised the ”Harry Potter” series over its use of magic and argue that it promotes the occult – an assertion that, if true, could be serious since the movies and literature target children who can be most affected by negative spiritual content.

But even after five movies-worth of discussions, Christians are still split on the issue.

”By now, there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to the use of magic in the Harry Potter series of books and movie,” explained critic Lindy Keffer of the Christian movie site Plugged In Online. “Even with all the magic in the air, the worldview of ‘[Order of the] Phoenix’ can't be called consistently occult. Like the world we live in today, it's a hodgepodge of ideas that are accepted simultaneously, even if they don't really fit together.”

Dr Ted Baehr, founder of MovieGuide.org, however, is less accommodating in his review.
“[T]he movie version of ‘Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix’ is liable to still do great business at the box office,” he wrote. “Regrettably, however, this means that even more children will be lured away from God and His Infallible Word, which says that witchcraft is evil and abhorrent. Instead of dreaming about the joys that God gives us through Jesus Christ, they will be dreaming of casting spells, using magic spells, riding brooms, and rebelling against their parents.”

In the newest ”Potter” film, Harry’s magical world is interrupted by an evil disturbance. The main villain of the films, Lord Voldemort, has returned to the world and is mounting an army to regain his former strength.

Harry, his friends, and several mature wizards such as Professor Albus Dumbledore must struggle with the current Ministry of Magic which refuses to recognise the dire situation. In an act of civil disobedience, the group must unite to prepare for an attack from Voldemort, despite the wishes of the wizardry government. The Order of the Phoenix is reunited, bringing together the “good” wizards to again fend off the dark lord.

There is still a huge outcry against the new movie from several conservative Christian groups who warn families to keep their children away from the film, asserting that it can leave ill effects for normalising a dark spiritual world.

There has, however, also been a new wave of Christians supporting the literature. They feel that others exaggerate the problems of witchcraft found in the books.

One author and home-schooling mother recently had a change of heart when she read the books. After keeping ”Potter” out of her house for years, Nancy Brown from Illinois gave the books a chance and said she found the books to actually be positive for child growth. She has written a new novel, "The Mystery of Harry Potter", that came out mid-June to even encourage Christian parents with the material.

"After reading Harry Potter for myself, I had to conclude that the Potter series is not about the occult or witchcraft but actually just the opposite," explained Brown in a statement. "The stories are morality tales filled with excellent opportunities for family discussions.

"In short, the Harry Potter books are great for all families and especially Christian parents, who for centuries have used literature to illustrate the struggle between good and evil when teaching their children."

The movies gained huge victories when conservative ministry heads such as Dr James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, and Chuck Colson of Prison Fellowship Ministries gave their stamp of approval.

But looking at the whole landscape, it may be impossible to gain a firm consensus on how Christians feel about the wizard themes found inside “Harry Potter.” Is the material innocent enough for its audience?

“Though the film version of ’Phoenix’ is not as gloomy as the book, the story presented therein is still far too severe to justify the affections of its primary fans: kids,” concluded Plugged In Online critic Keffer. “And that's true without even mentioning the ongoing dilemma presented by the omnipresence of magic and the clash with the real-life truth that there is no such thing as a good witch or wizard.”


[url="http://www.christiantoday.com/article/harry.potter.occult.or.not/11560-2.htm"]http://www.christiantoday.com/article/harr...not/11560-2.htm[/url]

[jiyoung]

It's not meant to be a catechetical Catholic movie. But as the catechetics faculty at FUS says, you can make anything catechetical. And besides, we're not supposed to shield children from EVERYTHING that could *possibly* have a message not completely congruent with Catholic teaching--they'll never watch anything. I think there's nothing wrong with letting the children watch/read Harry Potter as long as you take the opportunity to use it as a catechetical moment. The woman who wrote that book, The Mystery of Harry Potter, is saying as much. Take the time with your kids to read it with them and point out what's good and reinforces Catholic teaching and general good morals, and what doesn't, perhaps more importantly--because the concern is more about the things that don't go along with Catholic foundations and can creep in to affect a child's beliefs negatively undetected. I think the uproar is more about the witchcraft and all that's involved. But honestly I don't think it really resembles actual witchcraft--brooms, wands, hocus-pocus magic words, fanciful creatures like dragons? It's fantasy, not occult literature. And as long as a child is firmly grounded in reality, a little fantasy won't hurt. But, as that book also stresses, it's up to the parents, who should read the books and decide what to do themselves.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1330237' date='Jul 15 2007, 09:28 PM']Harry Potter is some of the greatest literature ever written[/quote]

Not to get off-topic, but this I would object to far more than the evilness of it, and that's saying a lot . but again, just my opinion, not much I would really have to argue with on this one. I just don't think it was well-written at all.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1330346' date='Jul 15 2007, 10:41 PM']if it's 99% harmless and 1% evil, is it ok? what if it's 90% harmless and 10% evil, is it ok? 70/30? 60/40? 50/50? where do you draw the line? how safe would you want your own children to be?

if you think it's harmless, perhaps you should find out why important officials in our Church feel the way they do. you might be surprised. i don't know the details, but i'll just play it safe and find something else for my nephew and future children.[/quote]

Satan's more than happy with 99 truths if you accept one lie

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='jiyoung' post='1330403' date='Jul 16 2007, 06:26 AM']It's not meant to be a catechetical Catholic movie. But as the catechetics faculty at FUS says, you can make anything catechetical. And besides, we're not supposed to shield children from EVERYTHING that could *possibly* have a message not completely congruent with Catholic teaching--they'll never watch anything. I think there's nothing wrong with letting the children watch/read Harry Potter as long as you take the opportunity to use it as a catechetical moment. The woman who wrote that book, The Mystery of Harry Potter, is saying as much. Take the time with your kids to read it with them and point out what's good and reinforces Catholic teaching and general good morals, and what doesn't, perhaps more importantly--because the concern is more about the things that don't go along with Catholic foundations and can creep in to affect a child's beliefs negatively undetected. I think the uproar is more about the witchcraft and all that's involved. But honestly I don't think it really resembles actual witchcraft--brooms, wands, hocus-pocus magic words, fanciful creatures like dragons? It's fantasy, not occult literature. And as long as a child is firmly grounded in reality, a little fantasy won't hurt. But, as that book also stresses, it's up to the parents, who should read the books and decide what to do themselves.[/quote]

That's how I see it, too. These books are more about good vs. evil than anything else, and can be used to illustrate a point. I don't remember the link that Terra Firma put up a few weeks back, on how these books basically rely on tradition of alchemy, which is strong in British literature. Besides, if I were to be against these for witchcraft, I also would not read MacBeth, pretty much any of the Norse sagas, etc. It is definitely important to stress to the child reading it that it is fantasy, and to talk about it, though.

[Innocent]

[quote name='zwergel88' post='1330237' date='Jul 16 2007, 08:58 AM']I think that this thread is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. Harry Potter is some of the greatest literature ever written,[/quote]

That's a very interesting viewpoint. What do you consider to be the distinguishing features of good literature?

[Bonbon]

Harmless, to someone who knows the truth. My younger siblings watch it, knowing that is all fake. They don't go around pretending to be wizards. They barely think about the movie after they watch it. Some children are more sensitive yes. Its all up to a parent whether their kid can watch that movie. They know how their kids are.

If people are up against it because its about magic. What about LOTR? there's wizards in there, Chronicles of Narina? Wizard of Oz? Wicked? Countless movies have magical people and things in them. Yes there is dark wizard and good wizard. But what movie has all good people in it. NONE!!

Now I'm just talking about the movies. I have not read the books. I'm not much of a Harry Potter fan. But I do like seeing the movies.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Cardinals Flower

[scardella]

Most of this is targetted at whether it's good for kids. Does the same apply to adults?

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='scardella' post='1330695' date='Jul 16 2007, 08:20 AM']Most of this is targeted at whether it's good for kids. Does the same apply to adults?[/quote]

Adults and kids are different. I think HP is less bad for adults than it is for kids.

[Didymus]

Patrick Madrid always noted the fact that LOTR and the Chronicles obviously show a fantasized world which pretty much all of the readers regardless of age know they cannot ever arrive in, whereas the Harry Potter series (which i have not read so correct me if I'm wrong) does not so well distinguish the fantasy in the book with the real world and thus if one is not careful they can begin to mix the two, and that is why many worry about the dangers with children and whatnot because when they don't the difference, together with the false belief that there is a difference between good and bad magic, that can become quite the problem.

[Bonbon]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1330698' date='Jul 16 2007, 08:22 AM']Adults and kids are different. I think HP is less bad for adults than it is for kids.[/quote]
Most likely, but HP is attracting more of a younger crowd then older.

[scardella]

[quote name='Cardinals Flower' post='1330730' date='Jul 16 2007, 10:45 AM']Most likely, but HP is attracting more of a younger crowd then older.[/quote]

Well, I know several adults who love to read Harry Potter...

[uruviel]

I don't think it's right to contrast LOTR, CON, and HP in terms of magic. The witch craft and wizardry in HP is different. The magic is REAL in HP. The incantations are real ones that satan worshipers use. That does NOT seem right to me. HP is a lot darker than other fantasies, I don't think kids should get into magic, whether they seem to be effected by it or not. It's certainly not healthy for them. The question is whether it would harm them or not. I believe that you aren't always the one to judge that, even the parent cannot know what will harm his or her child. I don't see it as safe to put your child in that position in the first place, yes they may not care or think about it. But it brings me back to the halloween subject. Kids see it as innocent fun, when it is not.
Children see HP as innocent. But satan is good at perverting innocent things in a very secret way, because the only way to draw children to him is to make it innocent like their minds. Anyways, I'm rambling, the point is that we may not be being careful enough, it is hard to define between innocent fun and evil nowadays because of the way satan works. I would prefer to avoid it all together.