Grinding A Mortal Sin?

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Paddington' post='1331756' date='Jul 17 2007, 01:23 AM']I wonder if there just isn't an answer on the culpability during drunkenness thing. It could depend on how drunk and etc.
If somebody falls from grace, then doesn't it change the game afterwards?
Drunkenness could be the fall from grace, and then a lack of sanctification from then on would be a lessened ability from a soul that is dead regardless.[/quote]

Like most sin questions, it boils down to where your heart is. The part about losing culpability due to drunkeness is for people who lack foreknowledge of the effects of alcohol, were pressured into drinking, didn't realize how much they had, etc. Getting drunk thinking that you can do whatever you want because God won't hold you accountable is twisted logic. It's the spirit of Pride saying you can fool God (not that I think you believe that, but it's an easy trap to fall into when focus too much on categorizing and ranking sins).

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1332085' date='Jul 17 2007, 10:38 AM']Occasionally it would be nice for a simple [clean!!!!!!] definition for us old people. Has this any relation to what is known as "freaking"?[/quote]

Yeah, that'd be it.

[gamesfanatic04]

Hey I can finally post! I find the best rule of thumb with mortal sins is if you have to ask then yes.

[let_go_let_God]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1332085' date='Jul 17 2007, 07:38 AM']Occasionally it would be nice for a simple [clean!!!!!!] definition for us old people. Has this any relation to what is known as "freaking"?[/quote]

Freaking is a more lude and "hard core" version of grinding.

God bless-
LGLG

[XIX]

[quote name='gamesfanatic04' post='1332407' date='Jul 17 2007, 12:18 PM']Hey I can finally post! I find the best rule of thumb with mortal sins is if you have to ask then yes.[/quote]
what???

[Paddington]

[quote name='XIX' post='1334662' date='Jul 19 2007, 01:17 PM']what???[/quote]

Yea, that caught my attention too. "If you have to ask.....don't do it" is the actual rule.

Nick made a thingy about it "If it is not grave matter, but the sinner thinks it is grave matter, can it be a mortal sin?" Answer = No. There could be something of grave matter that gets attached to it I spose such as spitting on the sidewalk while telling God "I wish this sidewalk was you." Or something. The sidewalk spitting is venial if at all; the attitude sounds like grave matter.

[StColette]

[quote name='gamesfanatic04' post='1332407' date='Jul 17 2007, 12:18 PM']Hey I can finally post! I find the best rule of thumb with mortal sins is if you have to ask then yes.[/quote]

Umm no... Especially if one suffers from a scrupulous conscience and is constantly asking if everything is a sin.

Mortal sin requires foreknowledge that what you are about to do or have done is sinful. Like... you know premarital sex is a sin and you do it any... that's a mortal sin!

[93 Phillies]

So are you held fully responsible for things you do when drunk? I think you should be. Unless someone poisoned you or something obviously. But I mean, if you are drinking, you need to control yourself and accept responsibility completely. You are knowingly placing yourself in a spot of lowered inhibitions.

[XIX]

Yes that's exactly it. If you get yourself drunk, you are putting yourself in a position to make bad choices.

[XIX]

[quote name='gamesfanatic04' post='1332407' date='Jul 17 2007, 12:18 PM']Hey I can finally post! I find the best rule of thumb with mortal sins is if you have to ask then yes.[/quote]
I could see how that can work for some people. I'd even go so far as to say that skipping communion at Mass may be a good idea if you have to ask, just to err on the side of caution.

But normally, if you have to ask then you don't theoretically "know" that it's mortal. And knowing that a sin is grave matter is a requirement for a sin to be mortal. Anyways, here is the rundown:

1) [b]A sin has to be considered "grave matter" for it to be considered mortal.[/b] A lot of people ask "is such-and-such a mortal sin?" when I think they really mean to ask if it is a grave sin. In theory, any "mortal" sin could be a venial sin if requirements #2 and 3 are not met.

2) [b]You have to have full knowledge that what you are doing is wrong.[/b] Willful ignorance does not cover you here. Other than that, it a bit gray as far as what constitutes "willful ignorance."

3) [b]You have to have full consent of will. [/b] Again, it's kind of a gray area beyond the obvious (if someone is torturing you or threatening your life, you don't have full consent of will). Stuff like addiction could be considered an imposement on full consent of will, but that's kind of a gray area--at least in my mind. If someone wants to try to clarify that area, go for it


With all of that said, I do think that many Catholics (myself included) focus so much on avoiding mortal sin that we forget about what is truly important to avoid mortal sin in the first place--that is, focusing on God and holiness. Trying to avoid mortal sin is fine and good, but when it becomes the main goal, it seems analogous to aiming for purgatory. "Dear Lord, please let me do just good enough to get out of Hell."

I think the Lord wants more from us.

Edited July 20, 2007 by XIX

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='XIX' post='1335662' date='Jul 20 2007, 09:12 AM']I could see how that can work for some people. I'd even go so far as to say that skipping communion at Mass may be a good idea if you have to ask, just to err on the side of caution.

But normally, if you have to ask then you don't theoretically "know" that it's mortal. And knowing that a sin is grave matter is a requirement for a sin to be mortal. Anyways, here is the rundown:

1) [b]A sin has to be considered "grave matter" for it to be considered mortal.[/b] A lot of people ask "is such-and-such a mortal sin?" when I think they really mean to ask if it is a grave sin. In theory, any "mortal" sin could be a venial sin if requirements #2 and 3 are not met.

2) [b]You have to have full knowledge that what you are doing is wrong.[/b] Willful ignorance does not cover you here. Other than that, it a bit gray as far as what constitutes "willful ignorance."

3) You have to have full consent of will. Again, it's kind of a gray area beyond the obvious (if someone is torturing you or threatening your life, you don't have full consent of will). Stuff like addiction could be considered an imposement on full consent of will, but that's kind of a gray area--at least in my mind. If someone wants to try to clarify that area, go for it [/quote]

That pretty much covers it.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='93 Phillies' post='1335526' date='Jul 20 2007, 01:55 AM']So are you held fully responsible for things you do when drunk? I think you should be. Unless someone poisoned you or something obviously. But I mean, if you are drinking, you need to control yourself and accept responsibility completely. You are knowingly placing yourself in a spot of lowered inhibitions.[/quote]
This is true legally as well, generally. Even though drinking reduces the "knowing" part of your culpability the choice to get drink was knowing and voluntary.

[bonoducchi]

It's mortal because you look ridiculous and make other people around you physically ill.