Professions

[TotusTuusMaria]

J.M.J.

[quote name='Era Might' post='1328914' date='Jul 14 2007, 11:10 PM']Just don't link to it until its faithfulness to the Church is cleared up.[/quote]

These sisters have been known to sponser conferances where the key speakers are excommunicated priests. This community is very new age. Their sister community is also very new age. If you go to their sister communitie's motherhouse you can find leaves and animals and things carved into the altar. I have had a couple personal experiences with these sisters and like I said above, it was horrific. They are not faithful to the Church. The sisters and those that I know who are associated with this community have been more concerned with the enviornment and ordination of females then with the Eucharist.

I am all for variety, but this is really not a community that anybody who is faithful to the Church and it's teachings needs to get involved in. I would not even recommend going to schools, conferances, prayer meetings, workshops, and just anything that these sisters have had a hand in.

I post this because as long as this thread that advertises this community is going to be here for "variety" purposes then I think the truth about the community should be spoken of out of charity for innocent discerners. Please pray for this community. Like veritas said, maybe (and lets all hope and pray) that these new professed will reform this community. This use to be a very good community, but sadly it is not the case anymore. Many souls, [i]many souls[/i], have been led astray by their actions.

This is not just some habited preferance I have. I know one or two specific sisters who do not wear the habit that are very orthodox and played a good part in my own discernment. And although I do prefer and would never consider a community that does not wear the habit this has nothing to do with my post. This community is just not faithful to the Church. period.

[jkaands]

[quote name='shortnun' post='1328876' date='Jul 14 2007, 09:37 PM']I may be puzzled by the mod's actions to edit this thread, but I certainly can respect their actions even if I disagree with them. But I don't, for a minute, regret or feel sorry that we had this thread in the first place. Without seeing the disunity (be it among Rome and sedevacantist groups or the Eastern and Western rites) that exists in the Church (and in the world)--as can be seen through the witness of religious life--how can we ever come to share in the transformative love that Christ showed us on the cross? I don't want people to discern their vocation (be it to religious, single or married life) with rose-colored glasses on--only making their decision from among the "best" options. Let's be realistic here. I'm [i]not [/i]supporting dissenting groups--but there's a lot more out there in terms of religious life than just the few happy, habit-wearing communities that we seem to talk about all the time around here.. And I think, so far as it can be done w/in Phatmass' mission, we ought to discuss the entirety of what's going on in the world- especially in how that relates to the discernment of God's plan for our lives.[/quote]

Thanks, shortnun,

I'll try to PM you the link, tho' it's easiest just to Google the unmentionable name of the order ( reminds me of "that-which-shall-not-be-named (Voldemort)" in the Harry Potter books).

Yes, we have had a lot of discussion of the entire sede vacantist spectrum in PM with nary a quibble about the
appropriateness of same. I am not RC, but in my gut disagreed with the SV's (disagreed is putting it mildly) --as they insulted, yes [i]insulted[/i] the contributions of many modern popes, including, of course, my fave, John XXIII, --but here were all these SV communities of various stripes being discussed on PM right and left.

I am a nuts-and-bolts 'practical' type of person, and tho' I respect the preferences of many of the PM'ers for the ' trad' communities, and can also see some of the appeal and advantages in the habit and community life, for example, the fact is, that there is only a handful of trad communities who are really raking in the vocations. Some of these may be competing with each other for the same pool. People are not entering the 'trad' communities in droves, despite the hype. Enthusiasts are listing and discussing the same small group of 'trads' over and over again. Some of the most successful are well funded and very savvy in using the internet to appeal to the younger set. On the other hand, there are (too many) OSB's and OP updated communities though out the midwest especially, which are left over from what was probably the largest and fastest expansion of western religious life in two millenia. Dozens of OP, tens of OSB houses, gobs of OSFs, all competing for the same pool of vocations--but getting a few, here and there, as any diligent search of the websites will attest. Transfers, too (interesting topic). Put these all together and you get many more than the 'trad' communities. Just do the math. The old large orders, originally swelled by large immigrant families (check the obituaries) are diminished in size, but are still going, and still attracting vocations. Some of these have combined and will probably combine in the future, especially among the OP's. In time, maybe the trads will 'beat out' the updated communities, but don't count on it. The updated ones (for want of a better word) are far more in line with rank-and-file Catholicism than the others.

Same for the Latin Mass. I am glad it's out there for those who want it, but don't expect a stampede to it. In my community I don't see any listed on a regular basis. Lots of Spanish masses, though.

I personally don't think that this forum is served by enforcement of narrow guidelines. The word 'forum' usually implies a discussion, an exchange of ideas, and not just a lot of folks agreeing with each other, and shaking their collective finger at the rest of the world.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='shortnun' post='1328872' date='Jul 14 2007, 10:30 PM']these discussions try to bring about awareness and a sense of the diversity that exists within our church.[/quote]

Dissidence is not an acceptable form of diversity. You're right, we're a very diverse Church, and that is awesome. We couldn't be universal without being diverse. But we're defined by our unity, being a [i]universal[/i] Church, and our unity is demonstrated in our obedience. Unfaithfulness to the Magisterium is not diversity.

[Veritas]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1328985' date='Jul 14 2007, 11:57 PM']I personally don't think that this forum is served by enforcement of narrow guidelines. The word 'forum' usually implies a discussion, an exchange of ideas, and not just a lot of folks agreeing with each other, and shaking their collective finger at the rest of the world.[/quote]


+

The thing is, and I say this with respect, it's not about any one person. It's about the Phatmass Mission. If one doesn't like it -one wonders why that individual would be a part of phatmass? In fact, if one continually and intentionally rebels against what the purpose and confines are of VS, I'm not sure that individual should be here -it's not respectful and it's not fair.

The VS "forum" isn't really the place for a debate. That is debate table. VS is a place for community, solidarity, and support.

I also find it interesting that a handful of men and women in their 40's and 50's find it necessary to come and "diversify" vocation station when our young discerners are quite happy with the communities that fit into phatmass's mission, which are often expounded and expanded upon. The fact that there may be favorites is a blessing -they are good and faithful sisters and an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The discerners here know about fidelity and they know about prudence and they have common sense. I'm not quite sure why certain folks feel the need to "broaden" into heresy and dissent. It's dishonest and a disservice.

Edited July 15, 2007 by Veritas

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1328985' date='Jul 14 2007, 11:57 PM']On the other hand, there are (too many) OSB's and OP updated communities though out the midwest especially, which are left over from what was probably the largest and fastest expansion of western religious life in two millenia. Dozens of OP, tens of OSB houses, gobs of OSFs, all competing for the same pool of vocations--but getting a few, here and there, as any diligent search of the websites will attest. Transfers, too (interesting topic).[/quote]

You make it sound like a competition for who has the most vocations. It is not a competition. No one is "competing" for anything. God leads a soul where he wants it.

[HeavenlyCalling]

[quote name='Seven77' post='1328479' date='Jul 14 2007, 02:14 PM']don't they borrow their brothers' habits?[/quote]
This may not be the reason in this particular case, but some orders like this feel that the veil is a sign of subordinance to men, and to wear it would some how degrade them.

[alicemary]

Well if you think that this 50 year old is too diverse for you, then I guess I will take myself and move out of phatmass. I find it quite insulting to say that Phatmass is for the young only. Well if that if your opinion, and the opinion of the majority, then I am gone.

[Marieteresa]

Alicemary, some of us enjoy your point of view here on PM. I really sadden about this thread maybe its a good idea to have it closed before more feelings get hurt.

Edited July 15, 2007 by Marieteresa

[stlmom]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1329015' date='Jul 15 2007, 12:32 AM']+

The thing is, and I say this with respect, it's not about any one person. It's about the Phatmass Mission. If one doesn't like it -one wonders why that individual would be a part of phatmass? In fact, if one continually and intentionally rebels against what the purpose and confines are of VS, I'm not sure that individual should be here -it's not respectful and it's not fair.

The VS "forum" isn't really the place for a debate. That is debate table. VS is a place for community, solidarity, and support.

I also find it interesting that a handful of men and women in their 40's and 50's find it necessary to come and "diversify" vocation station when our young discerners are quite happy with the communities that fit into phatmass's mission, which are often expounded and expanded upon. The fact that there may be favorites is a blessing -they are good and faithful sisters and an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The discerners here know about fidelity and they know about prudence and they have common sense. I'm not quite sure why certain folks feel the need to "broaden" into heresy and dissent. It's dishonest and a disservice.[/quote]


I'm feeling a bit stung by the age reference as well as Alicemary. I would like to continue to post here, but I will only do so if the other participants feel my contributions are helpful to the forum. I would appreciate feedback--thank you.

[Veritas]

[quote name='alicemary' post='1329443' date='Jul 15 2007, 12:07 PM']Well if you think that this 50 year old is too diverse for you, then I guess I will take myself and move out of phatmass. I find it quite insulting to say that Phatmass is for the young only. Well if that if your opinion, and the opinion of the majority, then I am gone.[/quote]

+

It isn't the age that's a problem -it just seems to be a common thread for some, which is interesting from a social point of view- it's the intent. Age is a legitimate form of diversity. Dissent isn't. I think it's reasonable for all of us, regardless of our age, to keep in line with the pm mission and if we're not sure what that is, to educate ourselves.

[Veritas]

[quote name='stlmom' post='1329488' date='Jul 15 2007, 01:02 PM']I would like to continue to post here, but I will only do so if the other participants feel my contributions are helpful to the forum. I would appreciate feedback--thank you.[/quote]

+

I would recommend this be done on a pm/message level. It isn't appropriate for this kind of feedback to be public.

[Veritas]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1328985' date='Jul 14 2007, 11:57 PM']Yes, we have had a lot of discussion of the entire sede vacantist spectrum in PM with nary a quibble about the
appropriateness of same. I am not RC, but in my gut disagreed with the SV's (disagreed is putting it mildly) --as they insulted, yes [i]insulted[/i] the contributions of many modern popes, including, of course, my fave, John XXIII, --but here were all these SV communities of various stripes being discussed on PM right and left.[/quote]

+

Did you read era's post? It didn't look like you did. No one is stifling the conversation, they're just removing the link. We don't link to SV communities either. The same standard is being applied to both.

JK, you stated above, "I am not RC" -does that mean you are not Roman Catholic? May I inquire are you an eastern rite Catholic or do you come from another tradition alltogether? That may help us to understand some of what is going on here.

Edited July 15, 2007 by Veritas

[Veritas]

[quote name='jkaands' post='1328985' date='Jul 14 2007, 11:57 PM']Put these all together and you get many more than the 'trad' communities. Just do the math. The old large orders, originally swelled by large immigrant families (check the obituaries) are diminished in size, but are still going, and still attracting vocations. Some of these have combined and will probably combine in the future, especially among the OP's. In time, maybe the trads will 'beat out' the updated communities, but don't count on it. The updated ones (for want of a better word) are far more in line with rank-and-file Catholicism than the others.[/quote]

+

You've made a lot of assertions in this post!

I'm not sure that the large communities, which you state "are far more in line with rank-and-file Catholicism" are receiving more vocations combined -especially vocations under 30 or even 40 for that matter. [url="http://theanchoressonline.com/2006/02/28/vocations-flowering/"]http://theanchoressonline.com/2006/02/28/v...ions-flowering/[/url] In fact, I seem to recall seeing some studies recently, which confirm just the opposite. I believe they were out of Georgetown (anyone interested in researching this?).

Also, I'm not sure what your point is in stating, "updated communities are far more in line with rank- and- file Catholicism". If by that you mean dissent and disobience, which unfortunately seems to be the common thread, I'm not sure that is a good thing! In fact, we could probably draw a direct link between the teaching done by these rebellious communities and many rebellious lay Catholics, which is tragic! I have certainly seen this in real life. In this case, it is precisely for this reason that we need religious that point to something beyond a mediocre, lukewarm Catholic life, which has been all too infiltrated by secular culture, secular relativism, and secular morality. It is precisely for this reason that the "trad" communities (which I don't think is actually an accurate title -they are simply faithful) are so laudable today -what they are doing is counter-cultural, and so necessary.

Pope Benedict XVI has said, "Overcome the temptation of a mediocre life, made of compromises with evil." We may be tempted to say, "Oh, well, it's not that big a deal" or "They are just experimenting" but in all honesty disobedience and dissent are very real forms of evil, which endanger the soul! Our main goal here needs to be holiness -the desire to create and encourage saints and to help people get to Heaven! God is merciful, but we have a duty to inform our consciences and to live in line with the teachings Christ has given us through his Church and our superiors -for our own benefit and the witness we give to others! Because priests and religious hold positions of authority they also have a grave responsibility. This, I would imagine, is why phatmass has the "strict" guidelines as you say. It is because of authentic love, which distinguishes between right and wrong and takes seriously our Lord's command to "not lead away" (remember the millstone around the neck?).

Edited July 15, 2007 by Veritas

[Veritas]

+

Silly double post.

Edited July 15, 2007 by Veritas

[philosophette]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1329463' date='Jul 15 2007, 12:35 PM']Alicemary, some of us enjoy your point of view here on PM. I really sadden about this thread maybe its a good idea to have it closed before more feelings get hurt.[/quote]


I agree. This thread is not turning into something good.

I also love your thoughts, Alicemary, so please do not leave.