Tranquility Bay Treatment Center (jamaica)

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='missionarybelle' post='1326712' date='Jul 13 2007, 09:28 AM']those poor kids have no love.[/quote]

And that's the bottom line. Yes, they might be troublesome. But obviously they have not committed the type of crimes the US judicial system deems worthy of incarceration. If you child is troubled, he needs LOVE -- not coddling, but disciplined, firm, uncompromising love, in a family environment. This place is a prison, not a recovery center. You can't recover from whatever is troubling you if you don't have love and the freedom to choose that love.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='missionarybelle' post='1326712' date='Jul 13 2007, 09:28 AM']those poor kids have no love.[/quote]

And that's the bottom line. Yes, they might be troublesome. But obviously they have not committed the type of crimes the US judicial system deems worthy of incarceration. If you child is troubled, he needs LOVE -- not coddling, but disciplined, firm, uncompromising love, in a family environment. This place is a prison, not a recovery center. You can't recover from whatever is troubling you if you don't have love and the freedom to choose that love.

[Norseman82]

I hate to say it, but for whatever reason, some kids are so far gone that they need extra discipline. I'm thinking in particular of some of these gangbangers.

But what makes me suspicious of this is the fact that it was founded by a 27-yo male with only a high-school education - he was a gas station attendant and guard - who does not consider any background in child development as important. And such "high-discipline" camps need some oversight.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1326840' date='Jul 13 2007, 11:08 AM']forcible stationary postures[/quote]

You mean to tell me that your parents never made you stand in a corner as a child when you misbehaved?

Some of you kiddies would never have survived the nuns in the Catholic schools of yesteryear!

[Norseman82]

[quote name='jiyoung' post='1326623' date='Jul 13 2007, 04:13 AM']I don't know, children are not horses to be broken.[/quote]

Actually, I recall some time ago Dr. Ray Guarendi on Catholic Family Radio did in fact compare discipline to the practice of breaking a horse....

Also, before blaiming the parents for everything, please realize that today parents are basically being communicated the following message: "You are responsible for your kids, but we are going to second-guess all your tactics even to the point of making you afraid of DCFS if you even look at your kid the wrong way, and if DCFS does become involved, you are guilty until proven innocent".

Sure, some parents are self-absorbed, and the whole divorce culture and acceptance of single-parent households due to out-of-wedlock/fornication pregnancies is causing a lack of parental attention, and yes that should also be addressed, but at the same time we cannot handcuff parents, either.

[Ash Wednesday]

Thank you for adding some perspective on this, Norseman. In the past, where the adage of "spare the rod, spoil the child" was the general thing, people would probably not have batted an eye at this kind of discipline and treatment. Not that it's right, but again I'm talking perspective.

The guy that runs this center gives me the creeps. I went to the center's website and it's unsettling how the ONLY photos they show are from the "fun day." I agree with Michael's sentiment that if someone has to go outside of U.S. territory, then something definitely isn't right.

But all this talk about murdering your parents in retaliation (yes, that seems to be what was insinuated, my apologies if I'm wrong but that's how I see it) and comparing it to Nazi concentration camps -- places where people were gassed, put in ovens, shot, starved to death, forced to basically exist in their own disease, lice, vermin, vomit and feces and stripped beyond any dignity beyond anyone's imagination -- well I think that's a bit over the top and I think a little perspective is in order. If Amnesty or other human rights advocates start riding their butts then I will reconsider. But for now, I don't see it that way and it's really not appropriate to throw those kinds of words around just to "get people's attention."

What's more, I'd like to know how many people in this thread are actually parents, and parents that have had to deal with an unruly adolescent. I'm not saying that it's wrong to criticize a parent, but again -- you would be surprised at what parents will do when they are at wit's end.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Ash Wednesday

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1326844' date='Jul 13 2007, 11:17 AM']So basically, Michael, if I have this correct-- you are insinuating that you would murder your parents.

How old are you and what planet are you from?[/quote]

I'm insinuating nothing.

I flat out [i]stated[/i] that they would suffer for their crime. And, if I was tortured as the article described, yes, they would pay with their lives.

[b]I'd do the same to anyone who locked me up, deprived me of my civil rights and tortured me.[/b]

As to my age: I'm 28, a Commissioned Officer in the US Army.

Unlike you, I've seen people who've been tortured. Not years after the fact, but immediately after we pulled them out of a basement in Ramadi.

Anyone who does that to me has signed their own death warrant.

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1327013' date='Jul 13 2007, 01:02 PM']You mean to tell me that your parents never made you stand in a corner as a child when you misbehaved?[/quote]


Norseman, best if you not try to provide input on something you evidently know little about.

Stress Positions (in the article, the PO is "being forced to lie absolutely still, in the supine position" for days at a time) are an extremely traumatic interrogation technique.

To prevent your weight from bearing on your face/nose, you are forced to tense your lower back muscle and bend upwards. After the first hour, you will suffer extreme discomfort and no longer be able to support your weight. Weight goes onto your face and nose until the pain becomes too much, then you tense your back again. Rinse, repeat.

So, yes, forcible stationary (holding absolutely still, with threat of physical punishment for movement) postures (even standing in the corner) is torture.

[MichaelF]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1327100' date='Jul 13 2007, 01:52 PM']I'm not saying that it's wrong to criticize a parent, but again -- you would be surprised at what parents will do when they are at wit's end.[/quote]

And as long as the parents stay on the ethical and moral side of the line, it's OK.

Shipping children out of US jurisdiction (where they have rights and recourse to legal aid), to be tortured into submission by foreigners, is so far into the "Evil" category that it isn't funny.

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1327169' date='Jul 13 2007, 12:26 PM']Shipping children out of US jurisdiction (where they have rights and recourse to legal aid), to be tortured into submission by foreigners, is so far into the "Evil" category that it isn't funny.[/quote]

What he said...

[MichaelF]

[b]Just so we are all on the same page:[/b]

Minor US Citizens are being involuntarily transported beyond US territory, for the express purpose of depriving them of legal recourse, so that things may be done to them, without their consent, that United States law would not allow.

That's all we need to know about this.

[MichaelF]

From the WWASP article on Wikipedia:

[quote]WWASP operates, formerly operated, or is associated with, a number of facilities, both within the United States and other countries:


[edit] Now Closed

[edit] United States
Bell Academy in California (shutdown after issues with state Social Services)[6]
Bethel Girls Academy in Mississippi (shutdown after state officials investigate reports of abuse)[7]
Brightway Hospital in St. George, Utah (closed by authorities for providing inadequate care and abuse)[8]

[edit] Other countries
High Impact in Tecate, Mexico (Investigated because of allegations of abuse and shutdown by the Mexican government)[9]
Morava Academy, Czech Republic (closed in 1998, when Czech police charged and arrested its managers with child torture)[10]
Sunrise Beach, Cancun, Mexico (raided and closed by Mexican authorities over abuse)[11]
Paradise Cove, Samoa (shutdown by Samoan authorities because an investigation determined credible allegations of abuse)[12][/quote]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Association_of_Specialty_Progams_and_Schools#Now_Closed"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_As...ools#Now_Closed[/url]

So, about a quarter of the WWASP facilities (most of which are owned by WWASP shell companies) have been closed down by National authorities due to abuse and torture.

[Justin86]

[quote name='MichaelF' post='1327149' date='Jul 14 2007, 04:12 AM']I'm insinuating nothing.

I flat out [i]stated[/i] that they would suffer for their crime. And, if I was tortured as the article described, yes, they would pay with their lives.

[b]I'd do the same to anyone who locked me up, deprived me of my civil rights and tortured me.[/b]

As to my age: I'm 28, a Commissioned Officer in the US Army.

Unlike you, I've seen people who've been tortured. Not years after the fact, but immediately after we pulled them out of a basement in Ramadi.

Anyone who does that to me has signed their own death warrant.[/quote]
Wow....ok, when you had to go through whatever training you went through to become an officer didn't any of it completely smell of elderberries? I mean, when I went through Navy Boot Camp:

1. My grandfather died. I was unable to go to his funeral because the only time you're allowed to take leave while at Boot Camp is in the case of a death of an immediate family member.

2. I had someone get up in my face to wake me up every morning.

3. I first got to Boot Camp at two in the morning. I had no clue what was going on and was sleep deprived.

4. I was unable to go anywhere by myself without permission. Armed guards were at all exit points making sure I didn't try to brake out.

5. I was unable to listen to music, watch TV, or listen to the radio. I also was only allowed two phone calls home my entire time there.

6. I got terribly sick at Boot Camp (no idea why as I never got sick back at home). I had a fever when I took the swim test. I remember being incredibly disoriented and not knowing what was going on. I passed by the way.

7. If my RDCs (or "Drill Instructors" as the Marines called them in Full Metal Jacket) found out that I covered up another Recruit doing something wrong I got in trouble too.

8. I'm sure if I was being so unruly that if it was the only way to bring me under control my RDCs would have tackled me.

9. I was made to "stand at attention" (a form a military drill that requires no movement) for long periods of time.

Now tell me MichaelF, exactly where in the Constitution were any of my civil rights violated? Where does it say I have the right to a full nights sleep? Where does it say I have the right to not have someone get up in my face to wake me up every morning? Where does it say I have the right to stretch out whenever I want? The right not to be tackled? [b]If I don't have any of these rights why do these kids?[/b]

As for this whole thing about killing your parents for violating your civil rights, you are either an incredibly immature person, or know nothing about working with troubled kids--or children at all for that matter. Before I joined the Navy I actually worked with a few of these kids at a group home. Plenty of them we had absolutely no idea how to fix and we were completely at wits end with. We loved these kids and didn't want to see them kill themselves, but the state doesn't allow corpal punishment, and quite frankly some of them were just too big for that even it did.

I honestly believe 99% of behavior problems in adolescents would never had developed if parents had spanked their children instead of spoiling them in the name of "civil rights". I can see some parents realizing this after their child hits adolescents, but by then what can you do? If you truly love your child you don't want him to go down this destructive path so what options do you have? This school is one.

As for having to go out of the country to do this, just because American law is too stupid to let parents do what is necessary to police their children does NOT mean they're being tortured.