Did God Know When He Created Satan He Would Rebel ?

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1327442' date='Jul 13 2007, 08:05 PM']I was thinking since last night on this... in prayer... and I came to this thought someone back me up or show me where I'm wrong... But once God conceived the thought of Luficer, He "had to" for the lack of a better word create him. This I'm thinking is something like a mother who has a child conceived in her womb, while still not born into the world outside it is wrong to abort the child, even if she thinks the child will be mentally handicap, or even a bad person. While it is a mystery, God's thought is on a much higher level than human thought and understanding, but once God conceived the thought of Luficer in His Almighty Mind, it was only right to create Luficer even knowing what he would do. We can not do evil so good can come from it. We can not punish someone for a crime they have not yet commented. Nor can God. Luficer, had the possibility of doing what was right, he had freewill God gave him a chance and he blew it.[/quote]

I don't know if this is kosher. It doesn't seem right....I know what you're getting at, but I don't think it's right.

[KnightofChrist]

You may be right... idk. I was just thinking of God sitting and thinking "I will create an arch Angel and name him Luficer, no wait he will turn against me so I will not create him." Once the thought was in his head with the understanding this angel would have freewill the possibility to do good, would'nt be a prejudgement by God not to create or allow the angel to exist? We're judge on our thoughts and deeds we actually comment are we not? But I would think if God chose not to bring Luficer in to existence because of thoughts and deeds of Luficer, that Luficer had not actually commented yet would that be prejudgment? Somehow? Can God prejudge?

Edited July 13, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[kujo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1327448' date='Jul 13 2007, 08:19 PM']You may be right... idk. I was just thinking of God sitting and thinking "I will create an arch Angel and name him Luficer, no wait he will turn against me so I will not create him." Once the thought was in his head with the understanding this angel would have freewill the possibility to do good. We're judge on our thoughts and deeds we actually comment are we not? But I would think if God chose not to bring Luficer in to existence because of thoughts and deeds of Luficer, that Luficer had not actually commented yet would that be prejudgment? Somehow? Can God prejudge?[/quote]

I don't think God has moral dilemnas. And I don't think He [i]prejudges[/i] because, with God, there is no time. Thus, there can't be a "pre" or a "post," just a judgement.

He is.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1327442' date='Jul 13 2007, 06:05 PM']I was thinking since last night on this... in prayer... and I came to this thought someone back me up or show me where I'm wrong... But once God conceived the thought of Luficer, He "had to" for the lack of a better word create him. This I'm thinking is something like a mother who has a child conceived in her womb, while still not born into the world outside it is wrong to abort the child, even if she thinks the child will be mentally handicap, or even a bad person. While it is a mystery, God's thought is on a much higher level than human thought and understanding, but once God conceived the thought of Luficer in His Almighty Mind, it was only right to create Luficer even knowing what he would do. We can not do evil so good can come from it. We can not punish someone for a crime they have not yet commented. Nor can God. Luficer, had the possibility of doing what was right, he had freewill God gave him a chance and he blew it.[/quote]
Based on Catholic dogma there are several things that we must affirm.

1. God has absolute foreknowledge of the free acts of rational creatures. Thus the fall of Satan was foreseen (foreknown rather).
2. God's creation is a perfectly and indeed radically free act of God and therefore the scenario involving some sort of compulsion is not fitting.
3. God's creation expresses His perfect wisdom and goodness and no defect, injustice or evil can be attributed to God in His creative act (or in any sense period).
4. To put it in more modern terms God has endowed all rational creatures with a capacity for self-determination and the moral evil (and fall) of the reprobate is their own responsibility and cannot be attributed to a defect in God's will.

If we say much more beyond this and we are speculating.

I hope this helps.

[kujo]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1327454' date='Jul 13 2007, 08:32 PM']Based on Catholic dogma there are several things that we must affirm.

1. God has absolute foreknowledge of the free acts of rational creatures. Thus the fall of Satan was foreseen.
2. God's creation is a perfectly and indeed radically free act of God and therefore the scenario involving some sort of compulsion is not fitting.
3. God's creation expresses His perfect wisdom and goodness and no defect, injustice or evil can be attributed to God in His creative act (or in any sense period).
4. To put it in more modern terms God has endowed all rational creatures with a capacity for self-determination and the moral evil (and fall) of the reprobate is their own responsibility and cannot be attributed to a defect in God's will.

If we say much more beyond this and we are speculating.

I hope this helps.[/quote]

Word!

[cmotherofpirl]

God is also not in time as we are. All time is present to Him, all the time.

[KnightofChrist]

Ok super... just a thought it was...

Edited July 14, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[carrdero]

After reading some of these answers I was wondering what free will God had given the living creatures during the flood of Noah, the Canaanites that he instructed to be killed and the residents of Sodomn and Gomorrah that were destroyed and why God would infer death for these people but let the ever rebeliious and potentially dangerous Satan to still survive? Favoritism perhaps?

Edited July 14, 2007 by carrdero

[T-Bone _]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1328112' date='Jul 14 2007, 06:20 AM']After reading some of these answers I was wondering what free will God had given the living creatures during the flood of Noah, the Canaanites that he instructed to be killed and the residents of Sodomn and Gomorrah that were destroyed and why God would infer death for these people but let the ever rebeliious and potentially dangerous Satan to still survive? Favoritism perhaps?[/quote]

God cannot undo creation. If he were to actually destroy Satan (or any single aspect of creation), creation as a whole would cease to exist.

However, if God so chooses, he can punish evil doers.

[infinitelord1]

I am going to start a different topic that will have relevance to this one...its going to be called "Why did God create?"