be_thou_my_vision Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Check [url="http://www.dioceseofspokane.org/Communications/IR_2007/ir070507/sisters.htm"]this[/url] out! God's grace does amazing things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 (edited) *warning*completelackofprudence*warning* disgusting... Edited July 11, 2007 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophette Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1324700' date='Jul 11 2007, 06:36 PM']*warning*completelackofprudence*warning* disgusting...[/quote] Now, now.... you will come back eventually, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Maybe, those two documents released this week sure don't make it any easier . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1324700' date='Jul 11 2007, 07:36 PM']*warning*completelackofprudence*warning* disgusting...[/quote] Everyone on this board who is discerning a vocation is a Catholic, ie one who holds the doctrines of the Church and is obedient to the sucessor of St. Peter, Benedict XV. Do you REALLy think that Christ would allow the Church He established to be without His Vicar for nearly 50 years? You know, it doesn't matter how "nutty" a mass is celebrated. If a priest says the words of Consecration with the intention of confecting the sacrament the bread and wine DO become the Body and Blood of Christ. Do you really think that Christ would leave so many of His children without the Sacraments? I was so happy when I read about the Sisters reconciling to the Church, especially Sr. Katrina, as I had written to her in the '80's when I was discerning a vocation and so disappointed when I heard that the congregation was "sede". Hey, I'm going to be really mean and pray for you, too! God Bless you! Sr. Mary Catharine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 How loverly [img]http://www.dioceseofspokane.org/Communications/IR_2007/ir070507/sisters.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophette Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Sr Mary Catherine --- you are awesome. I am going to have to remember that line --- "I'm going to be really mean and pray for you!" LOL. Sweeeeeeet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 [quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1324831' date='Jul 11 2007, 08:33 PM']Everyone on this board who is discerning a vocation is a Catholic, ie one who holds the doctrines of the Church and is obedient to the sucessor of St. Peter, Benedict XV.[/quote] Anyone who holds to the true doctrines of the Church is Catholic. I'm not going to deny that . [quote]Do you REALLy think that Christ would allow the Church He established to be without His Vicar for nearly 50 years?[/quote] It is one answer many believe. Some believe we have had a secret pope in exile, at least until the early 90's. I give credence to elements of both responses. For me Sedevacantism is not a doctrine. It is a philosophy and is not required to be Catholic. What is required is that one holds to the true doctrines of the Catholic Church. I know of a great many people who still accept Benedict as pope who also reject the novel teachings. Whether one explains it as not infallible teaching, or personally interprets the doctrines in a way that can be in communion with past Catholic teaching, it doesn't really matter. It makes no essential difference how a person explains the alleged problems. These are all different philosophies of the same religion. Some have more backing in church law and logic, but no specific answer has been given as of yet as to the exact way to interpret this situation and so people are free to come to different answers. All that matters is that one follows Catholic doctrine. [quote]You know, it doesn't matter how "nutty" a mass is celebrated. If a priest says the words of Consecration with the intention of confecting the sacrament the bread and wine DO become the Body and Blood of Christ. Do you really think that Christ would leave so many of His children without the Sacraments?[/quote] This is your belief and you're entitled to it. I don't see it the same way, but that's just me. I don't have any reason to believe that we are entitled to the Sacraments. They are a free gift from God which we are free to accept or reject. Whether that has happened or not is something that is not appropriate to debate here I believe and will respect that rule. [quote]I was so happy when I read about the Sisters reconciling to the Church, especially Sr. Katrina, as I had written to her in the '80's when I was discerning a vocation and so disappointed when I heard that the congregation was "sede".[/quote] I don't really have a problem with them no longer accepting the same philosophy. As I pointed out above, it is simply a philosophy and has not been set in stone by the Church, yet. This may be affirmed at a later date by a Pope to have been the true interpretation of the situation. Then again, it could be any of the other explanations as well. Most likely, and one I have no doubt is the most likely answer, the true story is something that no one has ever considered at all. Time will tell. Having attended the CMRI and being within the CMRI community I have had an inside look at what has occurred with these sisters. I know people who have attended and continue to attend the school at Mount St. Mary's. I know Bishop Pivarunas somewhat well (hopefully this relationship will grow stronger) and I know people who know the Bishop and the priests and sisters of the CMRI quite well. What is being reported is not the whole story. I am not disgusted by their leaving CMRI. If they truly don't believe in Sedevacantism then it would be appropriate for them to find a community elsewhere. What I was disgusted by (and yes I admit its a strong word, but I felt - and still do feel - it was an accurate representation of my feeling on the situation) is a number of other things that have gone on behind the scenes. I'm sorry, I should have made that clear beforehand. [quote]Hey, I'm going to be really mean and pray for you, too! God Bless you! Sr. Mary Catharine[/quote] Thank you, I need all the prayers I can get. And you can be sure of mine. There's nothing mean in that at all. Just because I have a belief strongly opposed to that of most people here doesn't mean I don't respect a great deal of people here and certainly doesn't mean that I don't view quite a few people as still truly Catholic, despite the connection to the current administration. With all that said, it might be most appropriate to close this thread as I don't think this issue is yet allowed for discussion. If I have not made myself clear don't hesitate to let me know. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sr Mary Catharine OP Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1325417' date='Jul 12 2007, 03:07 AM']Anyone who holds to the true doctrines of the Church is Catholic. I'm not going to deny that . It is one answer many believe. Some believe we have had a secret pope in exile, at least until the early 90's. I give credence to elements of both responses. For me Sedevacantism is not a doctrine. It is a philosophy and is not required to be Catholic. What is required is that one holds to the true doctrines of the Catholic Church. I know of a great many people who still accept Benedict as pope who also reject the novel teachings. Whether one explains it as not infallible teaching, or personally interprets the doctrines in a way that can be in communion with past Catholic teaching, it doesn't really matter. It makes no essential difference how a person explains the alleged problems. These are all different philosophies of the same religion. Some have more backing in church law and logic, but no specific answer has been given as of yet as to the exact way to interpret this situation and so people are free to come to different answers. All that matters is that one follows Catholic doctrine. This is your belief and you're entitled to it. I don't see it the same way, but that's just me. I don't have any reason to believe that we are entitled to the Sacraments. They are a free gift from God which we are free to accept or reject. Whether that has happened or not is something that is not appropriate to debate here I believe and will respect that rule. I don't really have a problem with them no longer accepting the same philosophy. As I pointed out above, it is simply a philosophy and has not been set in stone by the Church, yet. This may be affirmed at a later date by a Pope to have been the true interpretation of the situation. Then again, it could be any of the other explanations as well. Most likely, and one I have no doubt is the most likely answer, the true story is something that no one has ever considered at all. Time will tell. Having attended the CMRI and being within the CMRI community I have had an inside look at what has occurred with these sisters. I know people who have attended and continue to attend the school at Mount St. Mary's. I know Bishop Pivarunas somewhat well (hopefully this relationship will grow stronger) and I know people who know the Bishop and the priests and sisters of the CMRI quite well. What is being reported is not the whole story. I am not disgusted by their leaving CMRI. If they truly don't believe in Sedevacantism then it would be appropriate for them to find a community elsewhere. What I was disgusted by (and yes I admit its a strong word, but I felt - and still do feel - it was an accurate representation of my feeling on the situation) is a number of other things that have gone on behind the scenes. I'm sorry, I should have made that clear beforehand. Thank you, I need all the prayers I can get. And you can be sure of mine. There's nothing mean in that at all. Just because I have a belief strongly opposed to that of most people here doesn't mean I don't respect a great deal of people here and certainly doesn't mean that I don't view quite a few people as still truly Catholic, despite the connection to the current administration. With all that said, it might be most appropriate to close this thread as I don't think this issue is yet allowed for discussion. If I have not made myself clear don't hesitate to let me know. peace[/quote] I won't continue the debate because I agree this is not the appropriate place and besides, there has to be a mutual understanding of the words both parties use and what they mean. (Dominicans LOVE distinctions, you know!) Holding to the primacy of Peter isn't a philosphy but a doctrine of the Church, BTW. Also, my understanding of the Sacraments is based on St. Thomas' understanding of the nature of the Sacraments and the Church, so it's not just my own opinion. I'm not surprised that there is "more" behind the scenes with the the CMRI sisters that left. I've been in religious life TOO long to know that! And now I'll stop! DISCUSSION CLOSED! SISTER SAYS! Mutual prayers! In Christ and Mary, Sr. Mary Catharine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1325596' date='Jul 12 2007, 07:38 AM']I won't continue the debate because I agree this is not the appropriate place and besides, there has to be a mutual understanding of the words both parties use and what they mean. (Dominicans LOVE distinctions, you know!)[/quote] Agreed, no discussion could ever make any progress without some agreement to definition of terms. [quote]Holding to the primacy of Peter isn't a philosphy but a doctrine of the Church, BTW.[/quote] Agreed 100%. Church Tradition has made this very clear. But I don't equate denying the authority of one specific man as denying the office of the papacy itself. I fully believe in the infallibility and perpetuality (is that even a word of the office of the papacy. Which is exactly why I have come to the conclusion I have. Submitting to the office and submitting to one individual are two different concepts from what I understand. [quote]Also, my understanding of the Sacraments is based on St. Thomas' understanding of the nature of the Sacraments and the Church, so it's not just my own opinion.[/quote] Well I didn't say you were the only one to hold that opinion . If St. Thomas does say that we have a fundamental and undeniable right to the sacraments then I would strongly consider believing it as well, but would need a strong reference to a quote where he says this. And even if it is the case, it's not as if I believe the sacraments have fallen off the face of the earth. They still exist, as they always have, in the hands of the true Catholic Church. This has never changed and never will. We just disagree on where the Church actually is. And I don't believe St. Thomas would ever say that a non-Catholic Church has any right or claim whatsoever to the sacraments. [quote]I'm not surprised that there is "more" behind the scenes with the the CMRI sisters that left. I've been in religious life TOO long to know that! And now I'll stop! DISCUSSION CLOSED! SISTER SAYS! Mutual prayers! In Christ and Mary, Sr. Mary Catharine[/quote] haha, yes ma'am :. Edited July 12, 2007 by goldenchild17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sr_betsy Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 (edited) I think it is wonderful what these women did. It has to be painful - leaving the familiar and those they love. God bless them Edited July 12, 2007 by sr_betsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Great!! And a wonderful new name for these sisters!! Mother of the Church! I'll add this article to the thread in Open Mic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 [quote name='sr_betsy' post='1325645' date='Jul 12 2007, 11:04 AM']I think it is wonderful what these women did. It has to be painful - leaving the familiar and those they love. God bless them [/quote] I think that's very true. But they must also have a lot of joy to know they are doing the right thing. Nothing feels better than knowing you're in God's will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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