Knights Of Columbus

[M.SIGGA]

Isn't President Bush a freemason, along with the Archbishop of Canterbury? Since the Church does a lot of ecumenical stuff with Protestants who happen to support freemasonry, isn't this argument sort of wack - just because you have a picnic with someone doesn't mean you worship whatever they worship, etc. Plus isn't freemasonry now more of a social thing today instead of a real religious movement? America is sort of built on the Freemasonry, and it has a lot to do with our "Americanism" and how we think, plus it's on all our money and monuments, so what is this argument about again anyway

[Dave]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='May 3 2004, 06:20 PM'] Isn't President Bush a freemason, along with the Archbishop of Canterbury? Since the Church does a lot of ecumenical stuff with Protestants who happen to support freemasonry, isn't this argument sort of wack - just because you have a picnic with someone doesn't mean you worship whatever they worship, etc. Plus isn't freemasonry now more of a social thing today instead of a real religious movement? America is sort of built on the Freemasonry, and it has a lot to do with our "Americanism" and how we think, plus it's on all our money and monuments, so what is this argument about again anyway [/quote]
I don't know about President Bush or the Archbishop of Canterbury, but joining the Freemasons is still strictly forbidden by the Church. So while it may look like a social thing, religion DOES play a huge role.

[M.SIGGA]

The NEW Archbishop of Canturbery has since denounced Freemasonry as a possible work of Satan and won't promote any bishops or priest who are masons (my Anglican son-of-a-priest roomate told me), but I checked it out online and the Bush's are freemasons. I wonder if Jeb has since had to leave Freemasonry, and isn't he a Knight too?


I found this online and I thought it was kinda funny:

[img]http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/occultsymbolwashington.gif[/img] = [img]http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/washdcpentagram.gif[/img] = [img]http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/goathead.gif[/img]

I guess "Freemason America" is the Anti-Christ

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Sinner' date='May 2 2004, 11:28 PM'] And the more I've thought about it.......... what if the KofC did have a picnic with the Freemasons? I suppose Our Lord should not have dined with tax collectors either???? [/quote]
There are some good men in the freemasons though they do not realize what an evil group the freemasons are.

The vow they take alone is enough to keep a Catholic from being a freemason.

Freemasons have been attacking our Church since it's beginning. Some of their anti-Catholic hoopla has cut back, but they deny Christ. They believe that all roads lead to Heaven... not in a Catholic way.... but a pluralistic way. From what I understand they believe that you can work your way to Heaven.

Here are a few good articles on the group:

FAQ: [url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/freemasonfaq.html"]http://www.scripturecatholic.com/freemasonfaq.html[/url]
Rituals: [url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/three_degrees.html"]http://www.scripturecatholic.com/three_degrees.html[/url]



It is also thought that "Jack the Ripper" was actually a group of Freemasons.

[quote][b]Why is Freemasonry incompatible with Christianity?[/b]Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are inexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Freemasonry's teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry's religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge's prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism.

The Lodge's practice of requiring its members to swear immoral oaths is also incompatible with Christianity. These oaths require a Christian to swear on the Holy Bible that he will uphold a code of moral conduct that prefers Masons over non-Masons, and to preserve secret passwords and handshakes. Such oaths are gravely immoral because their subject matter is trivial or does not give rise to the necessity of an oath. These oaths are also sworn under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of physical torture and death called self-curses (e.g., having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out by its roots). These penalties show a lack of respect for God and amount to blasphemy which is a serious sin.



[b]What is the Catholic Church's position on Freemasonry?[/b]The Church, through its Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, has formally declared that Catholics who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. This [url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/masons1.htm"]declaration[/url], which is the most recent teaching of the Church, has affirmed nearly 300 years of papal pronouncements against Freemasonry on the grounds that the teachings of the Lodge are contrary to Catholic faith and morals.

If a Catholic is aware of the Church's position on Freemasonry, and refuses to submit to the authority of the Church by renouncing his membership in the Lodge, he may be subject to excommunication on the grounds that he is in schism (canon 1364). A Mason who abandons the Catholic faith by embracing the indifferentism of the Lodge may also be excommunicated on the grounds that he is in heresy or apostasy (canon 1364). Catholics who enroll in associations that plot against the Church are also subject to a just penalty (canon 1374), and those who promote such associations are subject to an interdict (canon 1374). The Church's penalties are not meant to alienate the person on whom the penalty is levied. Instead, the penalties are meant to communicate to the person the gravity of his conduct, encourage his repentance and reconciliation with the Church, and bring him back into the one fold of Christ. After all, the mission of the Church is the salvation of souls.

[b]Who are the Shriners?[/b]The Shriners are an organization of 32nd degree or York Rite Masons who are best known for their red fezzes, little motor cars and circus parades. The Shrine is also known for its hospitals and other philanthropic activities. Masons call the Shrine the "playground of Freemasonry." Most of the public is unaware of the fact that all Shriners are Master Masons (but not all Masons are Shriners).

Like the previous Masonic degrees, candidates for the Shrine are initiated with a solemn religious ceremony at the local Mosque (the Islamic gathering place of the Shrine). All candidates, including Christians, must swear an oath to Allah on the Koran declaring that they would be worthy of having their eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-inch blade, their feet flayed, and forced to walk the hot sands of the sterile shores of the Red Sea, where the flaming sun shall strike them with a livid plague, rather than to violate their Shriner Masonic oath.



[/quote]


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='May 3 2004, 07:27 PM'] The NEW Archbishop of Canturbery has since denounced Freemasonry as a possible work of Satan and won't promote any bishops or priest who are masons (my Anglican son-of-a-priest roomate told me), but I checked it out online and the Bush's are freemasons. I wonder if Jeb has since had to leave Freemasonry, and isn't he a Knight too?


I found this online and I thought it was kinda funny:

[img]http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/occultsymbolwashington.gif[/img] = [img]http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/washdcpentagram.gif[/img] = [img]http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/goathead.gif[/img]

I guess "Freemason America" is the Anti-Christ [/quote]
Jeb should have had to leave freemasonry if he was actually in it.

To be a KofC one must be a practical Catholic. No Catholic may be a freemason and receive communion. To be obstinate to a Church teaching keeps someone from being a practical Catholic.

A KofC would have to leave the KofC unless they end their membership with freemasons.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='May 3 2004, 09:46 PM'] Jeb should have had to leave freemasonry if he was actually in it.

To be a KofC one must be a practical Catholic. No Catholic may be a freemason and receive communion. To be obstinate to a Church teaching keeps someone from being a practical Catholic.

A KofC would have to leave the KofC unless they end their membership with freemasons.


God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
kewl thanks.

[PedroX]

Sinner,

While I appreciate your enthusiastic support of a good organization, you should realize that some local chapters make mistakes. Last October, the local chapter in Salem Mass had allowed a witch to rent their hall for a speech and witch "stuff". After a loud and national protest, they changed their minds. Mistakes are made, even by the best organizations.

peace...

[amarkich]

I will be glad to provide the documentation as soon as I talk to my friend (from a Novus Ordo Parish) who did her senior thesis on freemasonry and has a lot of information about the Knights' interaction with them. I believe that I also saw this on individual Parish websites, but her information will be much more useful (I do not claim that the Knights of Columbus are in any way Masonic or that the organization is associated with freemason). Also, did anyone state the reason that they are permitted to cover their heads since they are not clergy? That is an interesting question. God bless.

[Sinner]

[b]IRONMONK[/b]
First off I will echo your previous statement….. this is not of what I know of the mainstream Knights. Second, I am speaking philosophically of having a picnic with Freemasons (of which I personally would probably not attend….although there would be many souls available to convert there), certainly not joining them…. Quite a difference.

[b]Pedro X[/b]
Thank you for the acknowledgement of the KofC as a good organization.

First off regarding the witch story that you state “did happen”… another accusation with no source supplied by you…. can you guys at least cite a source for such far-out stories??

There is on the Net a story of a Halloween witch thing, but it DID NOT HAPPEN….

[b]Satanic Ritual Cancelled By Salem Knights of Columbus[/b]
State Deputy Thomas Ledbetter and the State Board of Officers of the Massachusetts State Council Knights of Columbus and the Salem Knights of Columbus have announced that the ‘Festival Of The Dead’ Death and Rebirth Ritual Transformation scheduled to be hosted by Salem Witch Elder, High Priestess Sandra Mariah Power at the Salem Council Knights of Columbus has been moved from the Knights of Columbus hall.
After researching the many complaints received about the ‘Festival Of The Dead’ scheduled for November 1st, the Massachusetts State Board of Officers determined that the event should not proceed in a Knights of Columbus facility and after discussion with the organizers they agreed to cancel the contract.
As Knights of Columbus, the Massachusetts State Board of Officers of the Knights of Columbus states that nothing relating to witchcraft should ever be presented in a Knights of Columbus venue.
Thomas M. Ledbetter
State Deputy
Massachusetts State Council Knights of Columbus
[url="http://www.seattlecatholic.com/misc_20031023.html"]http://www.seattlecatholic.com/misc_20031023.html[/url]
[url="http://www.seattlecatholic.com/misc_20031023.html"]Seattle Catholic[/url]

Second….. if any of the unsubstantiated reports do turn out to be true, I will say that it is an example of a really odd and rogue chapter of KofC… I mean after all, if we want to go and look for the worst in any organization, we can probably find something, as exemplified by the recent clergy scandal in the Catholic Church at large…..but that is a far cry from saying the Catholic Church is a bad organization. So did I say that KofC never made mistakes? What is your point?

[b]AMARKICH[/b]
As Thicke states…
“Please provide documentation. This is a serious accusation. Where I am from, we have nothing to do with Freemasons. If you are going to accuse an organization of something like that, you really need it back it up”

AMARKICH if you were making a statement about some notoriously evil organization I suppose I could understand, but regarding an organization with as much positive standing as the KofC has, why don’t you provide documentation BEFORE you accuse?

Wouldn’t that be a more charitable stance? I await your response with something tangible to support your statements. And an apology would still be nice.

[Sinner]

Pedro x,
Yes mistakes are made by the best of organizations. This is true.

[PedroX]

Sinner,

You quoted the story that I was referencing. If you go back and read my original post, you will will note that I stated clearly that the event was cancelled.

peace...

[foundsheep]

Great Life insurance.

[Theoketos]

Bump for the Knights (Bttttt)

[Mary's Knight, La]

bump...

i'd like to echo a few things that have been brought up:
1) KofC rocks and does or should do a lot for your local parish, if they dont then get in touch w/ the nearest council
2) look into the history of the knights and the masons if you want to find out why they're at odds
3) the knights definitely need more men, any guys over 18 not a knight... why not??
4) like a lot of the other guys here i'm a knight, 3rd degree waiting to finish my yr so i can go for fourth

[Paladin D]

Unfortunately, a neighbor of mine (who is a 4th degree knight) pretty much has nothing against the Freemasons. He told me that since the Knights and Freemasons believe in the same God, it's good that they work together.